zorg wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2024 8:28 pm I think it would help to know what these gains were,
Under Democrats, and what might have lapsed during Trump mk. 1.

I'm mostly speaking about gains procured by the Civil Rights act (but yet fully realized), which in fairness included both parties but spearheaded by JFK. Trump mk. 1 attacked and mutilated voting rights and amplified and gave credence to white supremacy/Christian nationalism for starters. All of this is still ongoing with the erasure of black history being taught in schools in addition to police officers having carte blanche to continue their warfare against black Americans.

Again, I'm well aware and have banged-on about how incrementalism is a bunch of bullshit, but I know that a wholesale rescinding of civil rights will be a lot worse.

jeff fox wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2024 8:34 pm

themilford wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2024 8:14 pm Nothing will change through electoral politics.... as if the last few decades aren't proof enough of that.

Things DID change for me! I was able to fucking marry my husband and benefit from all that that entails!

Tantrum Vote is the absolute PERFECT term for it.

Again, you might wish to look into this. Joe Biden flip-flopped on this by voting for DOMA as a Senator, and then repealing it later on when it didn’t look good anymore. DOMA was also signed into law by Clinton. The acceptance of gay marriage was not driven by politics, it was driven by changing public opinions and the death of God in America.

Bullshit. We’d absolutely still be waiting if those shitbags had been in office this whole time. Not to mention a 9-0 Supreme Court.

These politicians aren’t my friends. They’re not people I particularly like or respect and I don’t care to discuss their personal qualities or integrity. Nearly everyone is better off with them than the alternative no matter how abysmal both options are.

jeff fox wrote:Supreme Court

Ding! That's key. We would absolutely have different justices on the bench and Roe would not have been overturned had Trump not been elected over the pitiful but nowhere-near-as-awful Clinton. So um, it matters.

Let's say Trump wins again in a couple months. And Sonia Sotomayor drops dead. And even if she doesn't, let's say some playpen lower court decides to lob gay marriage (or a similar culture-wars issue that gives conservatives boners) back to the current incarnation of the Supreme Court in 2026, who've been shamelessly killing precedent and snuffing old rulings w/o much concern.

Is any of that just b/c of "changing public opinions"? The reversal of Roe certainly wasn't. The judges on the bench certainly don't reflect public opinion too often. Most Americans supported Roe as it was. That was absolutely driven by politics plus a very vocal special-interest minority w/good Washington connections.

And to put it out there just in case anyone thinks I'm simping I haven't voted for a Democrat since Obama. I don't care to vote for one this round, but I don't want the hands of the Stephen Millers and Elon Musks up Trump's ass in the White House for the next four years.

jeff fox wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2024 8:34 pm

themilford wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2024 8:14 pm Nothing will change through electoral politics.... as if the last few decades aren't proof enough of that.

Things DID change for me! I was able to fucking marry my husband and benefit from all that that entails!

Tantrum Vote is the absolute PERFECT term for it.

exactly. what the fuck pay some attention to the world around you

The acceptance of gay marriage was not driven by politics, it was driven by changing public opinions and the death of God in America.

ha ha ha

THE LAW HAD TO CHANGE. why did that happen? b/c the Court DID NOT LOOK THE WAY IT LOOKS NOW.

The Court looks the way it looks now because people like you thought two-party presidential politics was meaningless and didn't elect the decidedly uninspiring candidate who would've nominated much different justices who wouldn't be trying to roll all this shit back as you bloviate online.

if you want an excuse to not have to care what happens to other people as a result of these "meaningless" elections, you will surely find one, so again, who gives a shit what you do.

if it makes you feel good to do something literally completely worthless in the face of impending misery for other people, including people you probably know, the people who make your food at restaurants and clean the city you live in, cool. have fun with that. you're successfully out of the picture and perhaps you will find a degree of comfort in that

Vote Green, get Elon Musk in the cabinet.

Project 2025 is real folks. If Trump wins, don’t be poor, don’t be black, don’t be gay… don’t be anything other than rich, white, straight (not real), a Christian and the owner of a loyalty card at Cheesecake Factory.

You don't even have to have someone die on the court if Trump wins. Most definitely Thomas and possibly Alito will resign and make way for way younger nominees to ensure their project continues for decades to come. Thomas had to be bribed to stay on this whole time essentially, and secret recordings of Alito's wife made by an anti-conservative activist over the past couple years strongly suggest she (Mrs. Alito) thinks there will be a time soon when she can fire back at their critics without restraint, i.e. her husband ain't gonna die in office.

I just read that of the 500,000 elected posts in the US the Greens hold… 149.

That’s not a political party that’s a vibe.

But I probably should say to the people being labelled “luxury” and “tantrum” voters, I get it because I was one of you. There was definitely a point in the not so distant past when the column A column B list you can run against parties in a Two Party System was so close it really came down to “tone”.

What’s shifted my position on this is a number of factors. The largest being that column A column B list now has actual Blood & Soil fascism padding out the additional “bad” things that tip into outright oppression.

I’m a comfortable, white, straight-ish dude. At a purely selfish level modern politics don’t have an impact on me beyond vibes and maybe so taxes going up or down. So when I vote, it’s not really “for me”. I’m doing it because after years of rage I realise that there are other people outside of my “this particular issue doesn’t impact me.” Because these issues do impact me if I open my gaze. I don’t want a society that is on an endless war against migrants, the queer community, solo mothers, whatever the fuck “woke” means. There’s a long list here. Including the fact I have two young daughters growing up in this world. Maybe they’ll be gay, marry an immigrant, could have kids and get divorced… even just dealing with shitty men.

So now I line up the two options, because there are only two. Both options are going to have “I war” in their columns. That’s baked in, it’s not going to change this time because I voted Green or Workers Party of Great Britain (fuck those guys). So, you cross off all the common ghoulishness from each party until you get to the differences. In the UK those differences between the Tories and Labour were significant enough for me to put a peg on nose, again, and vote… Jeremy Corbyn because he’s my local MP but if it was in a marginal or swing area I would have voted for the party most likely to stop the Conservatives. Why, because on the cuntometer they were hitting 95%, with Labour / Lib Dems were on around 80%.

Gramsci wrote: I just read that of the 500,000 elected posts in the US the Greens hold… 149.

That’s not a political party that’s a vibe.

Truly. And why not a fuckin peep from them for 4/8 years, every time, until a few months before the election??? Shouldn't they be out pounding the pavement, 'building grassroots support' from the start of each term? Truly petulant and lazy.