OrthodoxEaster wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:19 pm

jeff fox wrote:Supreme Court

Ding! That's key.

Just a reminder that technically the Judicial Branch is supposed to be divorced from the Legislative and Executive branch, and inherently and absolutely apolitical.

I'm not blind to the reality, but I think even the "tactical" voters can concede that voting for a President...in the hope that judges die or retire....so that they can then appoint judges....so that those judges can then promote social justice....based on the cases that are then raised to them by lower courts, is an appallingly byzantine manner of participating in a democracy.

jeff fox wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2024 9:30 pm Bullshit. We’d absolutely still be waiting if those shitbags had been in office this whole time.

Look, those are the facts. It was a hot potato at the time, and these weasels are there only to appease the moral majority and make people money. It was a shift in public perception and cultural values that made Joe Biden repeal the same thing down the line, not because he's an angel or gives a shit about you or your rights. Even Trump doesn't dare speak contrary to gay marriage anymore, whereas, in 1996 this was voted for by Senator Joe Biden....

President Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) into law on September 21, 1996. The Act declared that no state shall be required to recognize a same-gender marriage performed in another state. DOMA also defined marriage as only between a man and a woman for purposes of Federal law.

jimmy spako wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 2:04 am You don't even have to have someone die on the court if Trump wins. Most definitely Thomas and possibly Alito will resign and make way for way younger nominees to ensure their project continues for decades to come. Thomas had to be bribed to stay on this whole time essentially, and secret recordings of Alito's wife made by an anti-conservative activist over the past couple years strongly suggest she (Mrs. Alito) thinks there will be a time soon when she can fire back at their critics without restraint, i.e. her husband ain't gonna die in office.

An excellent point. Thank you.

zorg wrote: Just a reminder that technically the Judicial Branch is supposed to be divorced from the Legislative and Executive branch, and inherently and absolutely apolitical.

I'm not blind to the reality, but I think even the "tactical" voters can concede that voting for a President...in the hope that judges die or retire....so that they can then appoint judges....so that those judges can then promote social justice....based on the cases that are then raised to them by lower courts, is an appallingly byzantine manner of participating in a democracy.

I mean, this isn't the sole reason by any means. But it's a damn good one.

And ignoring it b/c of how things "technically" are supposed to go and b/c it's "appallingly Byzantine" seems like throwing out the baby w/the bathwater. It's pretty clear that, over the years, not just in the present election, this court-related stuff has some very tangible effects on everyday people, from abortion to healthcare to the tax code. Forget social justice, let's just talk protecting basic rights enjoyed in many other modernized Western countries. Solid reason to vote, I'd say.

I think the SC went to shit when Bush replaced Thurgood Marshall with Harlan Crow's bestie.

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 10:55 am It's pretty clear that, over the years, not just in the present election, this court-related stuff has some very tangible effects on everyday people, from abortion to healthcare to the tax code. Forget social justice, let's just talk protecting basic rights enjoyed in many other modernized Western countries.

Yeah I agree with you here, it's just the reduction of realistic odds involved become fucking infinitesimal. It took them 50 years to repeal Roe vs Wade, and even then it came about because of a perfect storm of questionable happenings. The "incremental change" here is truly incremental and unpredictable. I do respect however that the Supreme Court seems to be the new seat of power, weirdly...and for all the talk of facsism and autocracy, the fact that we've got these bastards wielding such power for a lifetime seems truly antithetical to a democracy.

Gramsci wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2024 2:18 am In an entirely left field (eh em) topic, the rise of Sahra Wagenknecht Alliance (BSW) is intriguing.

... they are vacuuming up voters from the left and that were drifting towards the AfD.

You can draw far right voters when you adopt far right policies and rhetoric. Fascinating discovery.

Gramsci wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2024 2:18 amI would note that the “pro Russian” label is a liberal invention. The party is proposing a negotiated settlement between Russia and the Ukraine.

A war typically ends with a settlement. What type of settlement this party proposes cannot be readily gleaned from their website, but piecing together some other statements from them, and reports on them, they wish for Germany to enter some kind of econ-security union with Russia, which they envision will wean Germany off of US influence (don't know what they mean exactly, but presumably NATO and EU). So they are a Germany-first party who are against the war because it's bad for Germany and the German economy, so they do some stuff about people are suffering under raised electricity bills, etc., in order to build public opinion against Ukraine.

Of course Wagenknecht also thinks NATO started the war, so it's not Russia waging war against Ukraine, but NATO waging war against Russia through Ukraine. Where Ukraine is in her envisioned settlement is anybody's guess.

Self-serving, duplicitous slop. Can we throw these people in the bin already?

Snarkiness. Thanks.

They got 20% of the vote, that’s worth paying attention to. They stopped the AfD, again worth paying attention too. That’s not an endorsement. I assume the far right policies you’re referring is controlled immigration. I have no problem with that. But if you’re on the borders are just a construct boat I can understand why that seems extreme.

As for the Russia issue they truth there sits, not in the middle, but NATO and Ukraine aren’t always the good guys. Prior to the invasion every mainstream article about Ukraine was either “What’s up with the Nazis” or “Who’s more corrupt, the Ukraine or… insert hellhole here?”

For the record I’m most definitely not in the fringe pro Russia left. I frankly think it’s an embarrassment.

I think there is a shift happening in the fringes of the European left and right that is becoming more hardline against immigrants, specifically Muslim immigrants. I think it’s possible the far right becomes decreasingly hostile to LGBT groups and Jews, more critical of neoliberalism and we end up with Muslim as the new acceptable hated group in societies. I mean well beyond the current simmering level of anti Muslim sentiment. It’s a miserable situation but these parties throughout Europe are shifting the Overton Window into a dark place.

The far-left going pro-Russia is proof that horseshoe theory exists.

Krev wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 2:03 pm The far-left going pro-Russia is proof that horseshoe theory exists.

Yep. I’ve seen this first hand. A self proclaimed socialist working for Iranian state media, thinking Putin (a kleptocratic capitalist) was a friend of the left and basically backing every tinpot authoritarian.

She’s Canadian Nicaraguan and tried to tell me the only person talking about working class issues was Pierre Poilievre….

https://www.presstv.ir/aboutus/details/102

Krev wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 2:03 pm The far-left going pro-Russia is proof that horseshoe theory exists.

Going? Twas ever thus.