I'm sure Kanye is researching the Blood Libel for his next statement.

You really need to just go away. Like find another place to hang out.

lol, are you the prf police?

Eat shit, pigfucker.

you're the one voting for a cop which technically makes you the pigfucker

Gramsci wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 3:06 pm In my opinion it’s time for Hamas to capitulate and disband for the sake of Palestinians.

This would not benefit the Palestinians one iota. Israel would claim it's a lie and continue. And who could prove different? The media are either blocked from entering or murdered while they're there.

In any case, Hamas will never cease to exist. The name might change, but there will always be resistance to Israeli apartheid - and the past year has probably created tens of thousands (possibly more?) eager to join any such organisation.

There was some polling done amongst Palestinians recently, one of the questions asked how they viewed the 7th Oct attack given everything that has happened since. I forget the exact figure, but somewhere in the region of 80% regarded it positively. One guy said that they didn't really have a life before, so what's the difference?

Gramsci wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 3:06 pm I should add, I think there’s zero chance our governments will rein in their singular ally in the region as long as it’s a war against Hamas for geopolitical reasons.

It's not. It never was.

This is netanyahu showing a map of the 'New Middle East' to the UN, two weeks before the 7th Oct attack. Palestine is not on it.


There are also other factors that should maybe be considered.


This genocide is about oil.

Both off the coast and beneath the occupied lands of Palestine, over 3 billion barrels of oil are estimated to exist, according to a 2019 U.N. report...

...under Israeli occupation, Palestinians cannot drill for oil and gas. Many communities are not allowed to build out solar energy, either. Israel, on the other hand, hasn’t wasted time in claiming these dirty resources for itself. On October 29, its government approved 12 licenses for six companies to look for more gas fields offshore.

Is natural gas the real reason for the genocide in Gaza?

In June, Israel approved the development of Gaza Marine, the strip of water off the Gazan coast containing an estimated 1tn cubic feet of natural gas...

...after Europe cut off Russian oil and gas supplies in 2022, Israel signed a deal with the EU to become a keystone supplier...

...The main issue: there are about two million Palestinian residents in the area. So, where should they go?

A week after the Hamas attack, Israel’s Ministry of Intelligence issued a secret ten-page document outlining the expulsion of the Palestinian population of Gaza to northern Sinai, in Egypt

The war on Gaza is also an Israeli drive to seize Palestinian gas reserves.

In addition to Gaza's natural gas, it is worth pointing out that Israel is stealing Palestinian natural gas from the Meged oil and gas field in the occupied West Bank under the pretext that the field is located to the west of the armistice line of 1948.

Gramsci wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:12 pm Hamas is a religious militia with the end game of the annihilation of the state of Israel.

This is trotted out regularly, but that part of their charter was removed in 2017.

Gramsci wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:12 pm You could argue that secular national liberation movement of the PLO had a position that could be seen as capable of negotiated settlement based on UN resolutions but that is absolutely not the case in Hamas.

Which is exactly why Israel backed Hamas against the PLO.

I’m never going to support a rightwing theocratic militia. In the same way I don’t/didn't the Contras, or Pinochet. I also don’t support Israeli aggression and war crimes.

I do support Palestinian self determination and a two state solution based on UN resolutions and territorial demarcations. Nothing either side’s rulers are doing anything to move that forward. The 40,000 plus deaths in Gaza are a grotesque war crime, as was the slaughter of 1,200 Israelis.

This never ends. Both sides clearly have no intention in anything other than ending the other. As horrific as it is within 10-20 years this conflict will be over because Gaza and the West Bank will be annexed and Palestinians either dead or in Jordanian refugee camps. That’s Israel’s goal and by proxy our leaders.

And sure a lot of folks will get mad at me for my pessimism but I have zero optimism this will ever be solved.

A leftist position on Hamas as bourgeois national project.

https://marxistleftreview.org/articles/ ... ntainment/

It’s very long and detailed but gets to the point of why bourgeois projects like that of Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas will fail workers. Iran is an overtly capitalist state that murders leftist. Hezbollah has a record of murdering Labour leaders… honestly, fuck all these guys (and they are guys).

Finally please don’t confuse my distain for the above as support for Israeli military policy. It’s not.

It does seem like Israel prefers endless war with Hamas over working towards peace with the PLO. Imagine how much things could change with corrupt Netanyahu (plus right-wing cronies) and Hamas gone.

Krev wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:07 am Imagine how much things could change with corrupt Netanyahu (plus right-wing cronies) and Hamas gone.

I would imagine none at all. The scenario you describe has already transpired.

zorg wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:26 am

Krev wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:07 am Imagine how much things could change with corrupt Netanyahu (plus right-wing cronies) and Hamas gone.

I would imagine none at all. The scenario you describe has already transpired.

Yes. That’s the problem.The two sides were incredibly close around the Oslo Accords. Rabin and Arafat got very close, the return of refugees and then the assassination of Rabin fucked that right up…

I’m very pessimistic about that particular conflict. I thinks the end is the end of Palestine as a viable state and the expulsion of non Israelis. I really cannot see another conclusion. The rest of the Arab world’s governments don’t really want to get involved, Iran are no where near as much of a threat as they are made out to be. Israel have a rock solid bipartisan backing from the US government. The UK government’s foreign policy is just an extension of the State Department. Europe… nope.

Gramsci wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 10:06 am I thinks the end is the end of Palestine as a viable state and the expulsion of non Israelis.

It's happening it right now, a burn and salt operation.

zorg wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 10:35 am

Gramsci wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 10:06 am I thinks the end is the end of Palestine as a viable state and the expulsion of non Israelis.

It's happening it right now, a burn and salt operation.

Yep. The current policy is to render a peaceful solution impossible.