Why are white men 3 or 4x more likely to kill themselves?

Gramsci

Re: Why are white men 3 or 4x more likely to kill themselves?

21 by Gramsci

losthighway wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 11:02 pm It's hard to take anything seriously that's centered on the plight of the white man specifically. Even if you could parse something narrow out of it the search would bring you through the depths of the seediest underbelly of nativist reddit threads and boogaloo Civil War grievance clans that it wouldn't be worth looking.

I’d say considered the massive damage white dudes do across society applying a little bandwidth to this group’s plight would likely have benefits for society as a whole. Like a lot of things, this doesn’t need to be zero sum. But I definitely would not start ranking suffering into a list of who goes first because everyone can go at the same time.

clocker bob may 30, 2006 wrote:I think the possibility of interbreeding between an earthly species and an extraterrestrial species is as believable as any other explanation for the existence of George W. Bush.

hbiden@onlyfans.com

Re: Why are white men 3 or 4x more likely to kill themselves?

22 by hbiden@onlyfans.com

losthighway wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 11:02 pm It's hard to take anything seriously that's centered on the plight of the white man specifically. Even if you could parse something narrow out of it the search would bring you through the depths of the seediest underbelly of nativist reddit threads and boogaloo Civil War grievance clans that it wouldn't be worth looking.

that's why i apologized in the OP.
that's why some people would rather make jokes.
that's why you can vote anonymously.

a similar way of asking this is, why are serial killers and mass shooters more likely to be white men?

Gramsci wrote: Hugely social. Countries without guns have similar stats.

good point

My take on any issue like this is the massive gap between what men are told they are expected to be by our society and economic system and reality. This also speaks to toxic masculinity and every other psychological pathology you can think of. It’s not just women and minority groups that capitalism fucks, it’s baseline white dudes. That ripped influencer with the lambo and the reality of your 9 to 5 experience are so glaringly disparate it’s almost like life is now performative rather than experiential.

reminds me of fight club, which i still found to be problematic. but it was asking the right questions.

Gramsci

Re: Why are white men 3 or 4x more likely to kill themselves?

23 by Gramsci

I completely agree on that. Obviously there’ll be some “cry me a river” from some regarding the plight of the Straight White Dude (SWD) but considering the massive over influence on most people in western societies this group has a bit of focus makes sense for the betterment of all.

There is a huge problem with the societal expectation placed on SWDs by a self replicating culture. Helping this group to be more empathetic, understanding of difference and just more comfortable as a basic dude can only be good.

One thing I raised in the pols thread is the bad habit we have as a culture of seeing everything as a zero sum game. We can fight for feminism, trans rights and economic democracy all at the same time because they are intersectional. Everyone can have their personal preference in where their attention goes, but these are all at their roots the same thing. So being a feminist or ally and helping improve SWDs mental health are not mutually exclusive.

Just my personal philosophy but I hate “yes but”, I’m a “yes, and” SWD.

clocker bob may 30, 2006 wrote:I think the possibility of interbreeding between an earthly species and an extraterrestrial species is as believable as any other explanation for the existence of George W. Bush.

A_Man_Who_Tries

Re: Why are white men 3 or 4x more likely to kill themselves?

24 by A_Man_Who_Tries

I remain convinced that, if your sole platform was fighting to raise standards of socioeconomic hardship, you would deal with minority hardships whilst providing zero ammunition to the knuckledragging right.

at war with bellends

Gramsci

Re: Why are white men 3 or 4x more likely to kill themselves?

25 by Gramsci

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:16 am I remain convinced that, if your sole platform was fighting to raise standards of socioeconomic hardship, you would deal with minority hardships whilst providing zero ammunition to the knuckledragging right.

There’s truth in that. But I definitely think there’s plenty of room for all the shades of inequality to be fought simultaneously as long as the big picture is kept in mind. I blows me away how some other groups on the left have just accepted the liberal myth that economic democracy is inherently racist/sexist etc. Liberal effectively just made up the idea Unions in the first half of the 20th century were these things because the rest of society was. Surveys from the time showed greater solidarity with minorities by majority groups that were in unions.

Of course people will have personal experiences that mean they gravitate towards certain issues but if that’s not part of a wider program it’s way harder.

SWDs cause a huge amount of damage to everyone else. Getting them in board a wider program of social justice means including them in the process. IMO is would also help with the mental health issues creating high levels of suicide.

clocker bob may 30, 2006 wrote:I think the possibility of interbreeding between an earthly species and an extraterrestrial species is as believable as any other explanation for the existence of George W. Bush.

A_Man_Who_Tries

Re: Why are white men 3 or 4x more likely to kill themselves?

26 by A_Man_Who_Tries

Gramsci wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:25 am There’s truth in that. But I definitely think there’s plenty of room for all the shades of inequality to be fought simultaneously as long as the big picture is kept in mind.

You're right, but that's my point really. If the framing device is nothing but socioeconomic hardship, everything gets scooped up as you go, pretty much in order of urgency, and nobody gets to be a crybaby.

at war with bellends

losthighway

Re: Why are white men 3 or 4x more likely to kill themselves?

27 by losthighway

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Sun Oct 20, 2024 6:11 pm that's why i apologized in the OP.
that's why some people would rather make jokes.
that's why you can vote anonymously.

a similar way of asking this is, why are serial killers and mass shooters more likely to be white men?

My take on any issue like this is the massive gap between what men are told they are expected to be by our society and economic system and reality. This also speaks to toxic masculinity and every other psychological pathology you can think of. It’s not just women and minority groups that capitalism fucks, it’s baseline white dudes. That ripped influencer with the lambo and the reality of your 9 to 5 experience are so glaringly disparate it’s almost like life is now performative rather than experiential.

Yes, to be clear I wasn't implying that you were drifting neo-nazi for simply asking. I think reframing the question this way is more productive (at least for me). I agree with the comment about toxic masculinity. There's an illusive pattern with how racism and sexism are actually bad for the perpetrators and not only the victims. Someone who's bought into the online rhetoric about being an alpha invariably spends their life consciously or subconsciously terrified of being weak.

I saw a truck with a large, lion face decal, with 'Raise Lions Not Sheep' next to it yesterday. All I could see was someone trying to project their fear as animal mythology. The lion stops at a red light, pays to register his vehicle and groans when the guy in front goes too slowly. A magnificent beast. Surely this type runs a statistical risk of breaking.

Krev

Re: Why are white men 3 or 4x more likely to kill themselves?

28 by Krev

Those guys with the big alpha-male decals on their trucks have really small hands.

We're headed for social anarchy when people start pissing on bookstores.

bigc

Re: Why are white men 3 or 4x more likely to kill themselves?

29 by bigc

Gramsci wrote: Sun Oct 20, 2024 2:35 pm Hugely social. Countries without guns have similar stats.

My take on any issue like this is the massive gap between what men are told they are expected to be by our society and economic system and reality. This also speaks to toxic masculinity and every other psychological pathology you can think of. It’s not just women and minority groups that capitalism fucks, it’s baseline white dudes. That ripped influencer with the lambo and the reality of your 9 to 5 experience are so glaringly disparate it’s almost like life is now performative rather than experiential.

The non-real expectations that society imprints on men is self generating and insane.

My exit from this is to focus on how wonderful a basic, normal life can be. Let’s celebrate everyday people exhibiting everyday kindness. I try and think about this a lot. I credit our departed Dear Leader for helping me (not in person) understand that making music for the sake of it, as a social experience and/or creative process rather than “to do it as a job” and “be a rockstar” is the goal. I try to apply this across my life.

I've been dealing with some very challenging life circumstances the last couple of years, and have needed to reach out into the world for some thoughts, suggestions, and ideas about how to be a thoughtful, single 50 year old man after the end of a 28 year relationship.

I can tell you that the archetypes I see are almost always tainted with some kind of Rogan-esque pleas about making more money, getting a ripped body, meeting lots of women, and upping my testosterone. Not only do I not want to be one of 'those dudes', I have had to shy away from external sources of well-being because I walk away from the effort thinking 'I am a loser, and I either don't want any of that stuff for its own sake, or feel like I'm completely lacking in every way because of having paid it any mind at all'.

There are so few role models, and it's so difficult to know what the world expects of me. So your point rings true to me, though I do not suffer from suicidal ideation.

PASTA

Re: Why are white men 3 or 4x more likely to kill themselves?

30 by PASTA

Gramsci wrote: Sun Oct 20, 2024 2:44 pm
losthighway wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 11:02 pm It's hard to take anything seriously that's centered on the plight of the white man specifically. Even if you could parse something narrow out of it the search would bring you through the depths of the seediest underbelly of nativist reddit threads and boogaloo Civil War grievance clans that it wouldn't be worth looking.
I definitely would not start ranking suffering into a list of who goes first because everyone can go at the same time.

this, on the follow up to your prior post in this thread is some of the truest, and most beautiful things written on this forum in ages

Anthony Flack wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 8:05 pm kiss Joe Manchin's coal mine