zorg wrote: The atmosphere is totally weird. A presidential election and my kids high school refuses to discuss it in class. I remember we use to do mock elections and stuff.
Hell, outside of regional enclaves, people are scared to put bumper stickers on theirs cars anymore

This tracks with my little microcosm of experience. Not a lot of signs for Harris or Trump here, that I've seen. People in general are more hush, not nearly as "in your face" or even passive aggressive, on the ground, as a person outside the U.S. would think. It's possible that this could be because some don't want to show their hand. (Another reason why polling could fail to size up the situation, as it assumes everyone is responding in good faith and a given sample size accurately represents a much larger whole; even mashing together or cross-referencing polls won't make up for this.)

But there's something else at play. Can't quite put my finger on it. If there's an interesting takeaway about the current social moment, it would have something to do with this, the tendency of moving away from demonstrativeness. Maybe displaying one's political leanings just has less social currency now, in day to day life. It could simply be more tiresome than anything else. Or maybe some people, as you suggest, have come to the conclusion that it would make them easy marks. A general malaise or weariness outside of politics might be at play too. Our society has been aging, we've gone through some things, and most people--whether they'll admit it--aren't exempt from feeling fatigued by it all. Or, hell, maybe some people just don't want to head into the holiday season courting contention, conjuring bad vibes.

This will be happening two weeks from today. Probably some interesting hot takes before and after, but I don't know if there will be a lot of teachable moments. It feels like a lot of what could be said, has been said. The outcome will be rationalized or rebuked but it will be a fact of life. One way or another we'll all have to live with it.

By the way, I just had McDonalds because there was too much traffic going north.

Living the dream, bay-bee!

Women will be the deciding factor.

I monitor a fair amount of social media/online stuff and the attacks on Harris are probably 75-80% pure misogynistic BS. You would think after alienating many women with Roe v. Wade they might be trying to win them back over, but that's not even on the radar, even when it gets pointed out to them. I would bet quite a few women who would have voted Republican under more normal circumstances (e.g. guy vs guy who isn't demonstrably whacko) will be lending it to the other team this time around, despite what they may say in company. Also - chance for a female president. Yes, that chance was there in 2016 but Hillary came with baggage.


On top of that, many people just have burnout from years of crazy.

DaveA wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2024 1:19 pm But there's something else at play. Can't quite put my finger on it.

Pretty sure it’s the overt fascism, man. The repression of political expression is part of the coping mechanism. People just do it for different reasons depending on whether they support the authoritarian.

brephophagist wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:55 pm

DaveA wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2024 1:19 pm But there's something else at play. Can't quite put my finger on it.

Pretty sure it’s the overt fascism, man. The repression of political expression is part of the coping mechanism. People just do it for different reasons depending on whether they support the authoritarian.

Okay. I'm not going to pretend to have the answers here. But why would this apparent "repression" come to a head within the past six months or thereabouts, and not at any time before this? Yes, since Trump started running in 2015 there have people who've been quiet or more private in their support of him, including donors, but what about . . . all of these other people? Why are they now being relatively chill about it in the real world? And how--I'm genuinely asking you here--would this explain a similar dearth of signs for Harris? Why would her supporters be less demonstrative too? Are you suggesting that the fascism only became overt as of recently, and it's so powerful now that even opposing sides won't show literal signs of support for their antidote to it? Yes, people can easily be made to feel outnumbered or somehow intimidated, to feel a little closeted about even rather normal beliefs in some contexts. But that doesn't quite tap into the state of things here, in America, at this very moment. If I had to guess, I'd say weariness or some kind of trouble brewing would be likely culprits. But again, I don't know. And maybe others' perceptions are different.

^ I wonder if the average citizen isn't maybe a little exhausted. Could it be that both sides of the abortion argument have representatives that are just tired of being pissed off and arguing?

Could this be a revival of stasis, being ideologically withdrawn and not "bringing certain topics to the Thanksgiving table"?

Not sure if this is even true, and if it is it has its problems, but that's my best shot at an explanation.

People aren't too exhausted to vote (some early voting places have already seen record numbers). People aren't too exhausted to attend rallies or fundraisers--some people, at least. If people were ideologically withdrawn, then why would so many have made individual donations? People aren't too tired to talk about the election in public spaces online, or among friends. And yet . . . where are all of the signs in liminal spaces? It seems that no where nearly as many people as before have a vested interest in broadcasting their candidate of choice to their neighbors or random strangers in in-between places on the ground, with real zeal, employing placards on their front lawn, bumper stickers, candidate-specific flags and so on. It's a feeling of "let's not do this here" in some contexts. The general mood is off.

I wonder what will happen if he wins. It’s going to test American institutions to breaking point. The SCOUS might be “conservative” but are they willing to help facilitate fascism? Then there’s the military etc… Trump has no mental capacity for the job, he’s 78 and looks like he’s falling apart physically. What if he dies in office of natural causes? Vance? The guy is a lightweight and a tech bro puppet.

I get the Trump coalition is around 25% of complete Fox News goons and chuds (the mentally ill just walking around) then maybe 10-15% on top of tax is theft weirdos that include minorities willing to throw themselves under a bus for a 2% tax cut. But that then leave 5-10% more… who are these people, it seems like it’s sexist men.

That it’s not 55-45%+ to Harris is deeply disturbing.

DaveA wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:16 am And yet . . . where are all of the signs in liminal spaces?

This must be a regional thing because there are a bajillion signs in Wisconsin. I guess I can see how that might be different in places that are an electoral foregone conclusion.

Gramsci wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2024 2:15 am I wonder what will happen if he wins. It’s going to test American institutions to breaking point.

I don't think this is true sadly. They'll be dismantled in short order without too much dissent. A few might be bothered for a moment, but I'd be surprised if the bulk of police and military found a moral centre all of a sudden.