p.s if Biden really wanted to put his stamp on history right now he'd.. ah who am I kidding.

penningtron wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 5:58 am This is the point of no return.

Sadly so. Life-changing on every level. Whatever your hopes, efforts and determinations, it's always a horror when the shape of reality sharpens into full-focus.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:12 am

penningtron wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 5:58 am This is the point of no return.

Sadly so. Life-changing on every level. Whatever your hopes, efforts and determinations, it's always a horror when the shape of reality sharpens into full-focus.

Indeed. I'm wondering how long it will be before Trump burns down the White House, blames it on the Democrats and uses it as a pretext to abolish the constitution.

Curry Pervert wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 12:20 am

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 9:35 pm I'd say it's more off-kilter to insist you're showing people up left and right

You do like to make up narratives, don't you? Where have I insisted I'm "showing up people left and right"? The closest thing to that accusation would be pointing out about your sources, which has nothing to do with showing you up. It's about showing narratives.

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 9:35 pm when many of them merely wrote you off pages ago as either a self-congratulatory gadfly or simply not worth debating.

You can only lead a horse to water.


Once again, FTR: I stated way back in this thread that Ukraine should have the right to self determination and that Putin is not a 'great guy'. That doesn't invalidate legitimate concerns about the nazi problem or US meddling.

Congrats again. You didn't say such things word for word.

Yet you parrot the Putin-approved narrative (your "sources" some pages back included a disgruntled Soviet-nostalgia political party and a totally misleading account of what happened in Odesa in terms of who fired first; never mind that chronologically, none of that would have happened if Russia had left Crimea and Donbas alone). And your version of "self-determination" seems most peculiar, as it does not at all reflect the will of most everyday Ukrainians. (Oh, and Nazis! Always w/the Nazis in Ukraine, this invented Russian narrative... Never mind all the Nazis in... pro-Putin Russia.)

To the point where others, not just me, think you're saying that Putin was goaded into invading and had no other choice. (Seriously... )

Being charitable, you maybe want to have your cake and eat it too now.

This is probably getting tedious for all the people here focused on the American election—and like I said, this debate w/you is no longer worth having— but I'll leave it at this: You should be delighted that the president-elect of the United States now has much the same view on Ukraine as you do. If that's not horseshoe theory, I'm not sure what is.

penningtron wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:08 am p.s if Biden really wanted to put his stamp on history right now he'd.. ah...

have taken radical steps while he was in office.

It was men. White men, black men, Latino men, most men. And while the rich of those get richer the poor of those will get poorer and the rich will weaponize those poor against the marginalized.

rsmurphy wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 7:04 amIt was men. White men, black men, Latino men, most men.

While I'm too depressed to look into it right now, I'd bet that, once again, it was a shocking amount of white women too.

There's war on women in this country, and these semi-sentient meat bags voted accordingly. Don't buy a fucking Tesla.

Misogyny is definitely a large factor here. I'm waking up to the fact that we live in a country where it's terribly unlikely for a woman to be totally in charge.

It's not gonna be easy and it sucked the first time, but a lot of you lived thru this once. We can do it again. (And really, the dread around Reagan wasn't entirely dissimilar.)

I think you're now gonna see a Democratic party moving from center to center-right. Like it or not, we live in a weird little world here on the PRF. (I like it a lot, thanks.) But that's not how most people think. A relatively small number of Americans like to talk socialism now, but that's b/c many of them don't understand it and think it just means free shit w/o many catches.

The Dems' big mistake was waiting till a mentally iffy, aging president totally fucked up, then replacing him w/someone almost nobody got excited about aside from identity politics and optics-wise. And her story and last-minute installation made for a good headline. (Harris's policy was a mix of not-much and more-of-same.)

I also think it's naive for the media to assume that brown people, women, and gay people would vote in gigantic uniform blocks. (Not blaming any of this on anyone! At the end of the day, Trump is a dumbass dude's dude.) But I know a few of each who went for Trump, and I live in fucking NYC! Mostly b/c of immigration (seriously) and taxes. As they become "normalized" in America (that's a good thing), these groups will vote the same way everyone else does (that's not necessarily a good thing). Whether or not that's really in their best interests is another story...

Again, a lot of it comes down to the money, ie the person you perceive protecting your bank account and tax dollars. And even if Trump isn't remotely that guy in reality, he's got a fair number of people convinced he is. Plus a lot of people see him as an entertaining buffoon. We do, after all, live in the country that gave you Disney and Vegas.

Yeah, it fucking sucks. But we survived it once, I hope we can survive it again. Try to keep your heads above water out there.