OrthodoxEaster wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 7:51 am Again, a lot of it comes down to the money, ie the person you perceive protecting your bank account and tax dollars. And even if Trump isn't remotely that guy in reality, he's got a fair number of people convinced he is. Plus a lot of people see him as an entertaining buffoon. We do, after all, live in the country that gave you Disney and Vegas.

IMO, that's it.

A lady I volunteer with said with all sincerity she would never vote for a candidate caught lying. She said that demonstrates low moral character unfit for office. She voted for Trump without pause.
People in my family, I volunteer/work/play racquetball with, live on the same street as...voted for Trump happily. They love his whining, crying. branding, blaming, lack of critical thinking or remorse. It speaks to them. It's so U.S. There is truly no standards in this country other than money and winners.

"Trump Beats Woman...Again". There's a headline.

TylerDeadPine wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 8:32 am Inflation alone would have lost it for dems, then add on the vagina and she didn’t have a chance / strongly believe Gaza/ukraine/whatever didn’t even matter.

I try to not to worry because we survived his first term, but it’s a different game now. Good luck ACA, I hardly knew/loved thee

Something I notice that had my hackles up in the final weeks was interviews with what you’d call “low information voters” saying “my grocery bill is crazy now, it wasn’t while Trump was president”.

I don’t think he won because there’s a strain of monsters in the US, I think it’s because there’s a lot of people that barely think about politics that thought they were voting in their self interest. All of Trump’s bluster and bullshit probably went unnoticed.

Remember, people like us that pay a lot of attention to politics are complete weirdos compared to the average dude and dudette.

enframed wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 8:54 am

losthighway wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 7:46 am Misogyny is definitely a large factor here. I'm waking up to the fact that we live in a country where it's terribly unlikely for a woman to be totally in charge.

I originally thought that too, but Hillary Clinton won popular vote. I'm not saying I don't think it contributed, but it's not the only factor. Harris and the DNC fucked up on the message.

I'm not saying this to appear smug. But the messaging was fuckin abysmal. Parading out the Cheney's like it was some kind of big win. I mean this with all sincerity when I say that Dick Cheney is The Great Satan of my adolescent years. I'm from a small town in East Texas. Several of my friends died because of GWoT, either overseas or when they came back home. I lost all hope when Kamala appeared on stage with them.

Who did that appeal to?

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 8:18 am Thanks also to the nonvoters out there who helped make this happen. Seriously, you proved your point, all of you.

I don't think the numbers are in yet, but isn't this among the biggest turnouts ever? We're not talking Green Party, uncommitted, other dissenter numbers being relevant here, he's set to win the popular vote. So, I'm not sure this is the right target to blame right now, though I respect and understand your frustration at this moment.

enframed wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 8:54 am

losthighway wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 7:46 am Misogyny is definitely a large factor here. I'm waking up to the fact that we live in a country where it's terribly unlikely for a woman to be totally in charge.

I originally thought that too, but Hillary Clinton won popular vote. I'm not saying I don't think it contributed, but it's not the only factor. Harris and the DNC fucked up on the message.

“It’s the economic, stupid”.

They should have done a mea culpa-ish on inflation and had a clear program to reduce grocery bills BEFORE the election. They could have cut taxes on household goods and increased taxes on wealth. That’s a big splashy “We’re on your side” policy.

For all my “for fucksake vote Harris, please” the Dems seem addicted to center right incrementalism.

That wasn’t this election.

But, hell, there’s so many moving parts, so many different motivations for voting, not voting etc.

One big issue is the winner takes all nature of FPP elections. It’s fucking stupid to have these massive swings every 5 years. It’s a giant reset button that keeps getting smashed.

If you want to be more depressed:

https://davekarpf.substack.com/p/what-t ... 1JHg9C-uog

Gramsci wrote: Something I notice that had my hackles up in the final weeks was interviews with what you’d call “low information voters” saying “my grocery bill is crazy now, it wasn’t while Trump was president”.

I don’t think he won because there’s a strain of monsters in the US, I think it’s because there’s a lot of people that barely think about politics that thought they were voting in their self interest. All of Trump’s bluster and bullshit probably went unnoticed.

Totally. Not now, but in past elections, it was similar re: gas prices. See also constant access to low-quality clothing and food that's way cheaper than it should be (the Walmart effect).

Most people don't even realize that inflation fell back down to near-normal levels in September. And that it has little to do w/who's president (the J. Carter effect). They don't like paying more for buying the same shit (never mind that say, the stranglehold and price-gouging of places like Amazon has only a little to do w/inflation).

But the media sure did hammer the inflation thing!

Also, and this is purely anecdotal, but I've had at least two immigrants here in NYC (one Asian, one Latino) tell me they've had it w/the migrant situation. People pooping on the doorsteps of their businesses and stuff like that. This is unsolicited, in the midst of otherwise dull smalltalk. I ask them where else these people might survive, and they tell me they don't care, just not here. Wonder who they voted for?

Yeah, Omar and Tlaib easily won reelection. But how much of their "popularity" has to do w/policy or the fact that they're women and how much has to do w/that, like Trump, they are quasi-celebrity politicians who are more famous for being outspoken than anything else? More power to both of 'em, and I certainly agree w/them more often than I do Trump (and possibly, even Harris) but still...

Bread and circuses, baby!

Gramsci wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 9:12 am They should have done a mea culpa-ish on inflation and had a clear program to reduce grocery bills BEFORE the election. They could have cut taxes on household goods and increased taxes on wealth. That’s a big splashy “We’re on your side” policy.

It's become increasingly obvious that increased taxes on the wealthy do not appeal to the lower income earners. IMO, this is because they somehow think they could also be wealthy someday. The American Dream is to become part of the 1%, yet so many seem to think they can do it. It's a math problem.

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 9:23 am Yeah, Omar and Tlaib easily won reelection. But how much of their "popularity" has to do w/policy or the fact that they're women and how much has to do w/that, like Trump, they are quasi-celebrity politicians who are more famous for being outspoken than anything else? More power to both of 'em, and I certainly agree w/them more often than I do Trump (and possibly, even Harris) but still...

I think it has equally to do with running in unique districts. Same with AOC, who will continue to win in the Bronx/Queens but who's been successfully vilified in basically every red state (which I am now once again living in, barf).

There are also tons of progressives who've lost or weren't elected since 2020. Maybe the "defund the police"-type messaging didn't track well with people who've shown they'd rather deport millions and imprison the homeless..