Having been here (checks date)…. Twenty years… we're having the same conversation about the Dems we had in 2016+. They honestly seem completely incapable of pivoting to any kind of “Progressive Populism” a la Bernie. He even gave them two chances and the DNC ratfucked him.

On the results. The system is what it is. The popular vote is meaningless. The FPP Electoral College is all. It’s the same logic as the UK’s “Loveless Landslide” to Labour. No, it was just a landslide because voter turnout, percentages etc aren’t how the system works. You win by getting one more vote in the right place than your opponent, then take all.

In the end, even after dismissing Gaza as an issue, that could have been the Dem suppression that tipped it. We’ll need to see the data. If so, a bunch of people withheld their vote for Harris to elect someone that Bibi immediately gave a reach around on Twitter.

Nose
Face
Spite.

cakes wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:41 am So, the only optimism to find here is that when things get worse--and they will, because they did last time--then the only people to blame will be those in charge. At least that has historically been the trend in politics, and it certainly ended Trump's first term.

Someone talk me off a ledge and tell me what's stopping them, with their slim Senate majority, from ending the filibuster, or packing the courts? They aren't actually concerned with upholding constitutional or legal norms, they're interested in permanent minority rule. It's hard having any faith in "this means we will be able to get them next time!" talk.

cakes wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:41 am Democrats can't win on small, incremental changes. And frankly, the small, incremental changes haven't changed anyone's economic position that aren't wealthy.

I'm no economist, but also isn't GDP a woefully outdated means of evaluating anything when the wealth gap is staggering and only getting worse?

The way how the GOP was ultimately taken over by MAGA needs to happen with the DNC but obviously with a smarter and more concerned movement. The DNC is dead and if they try to come back they'll be coming back with the same bullshit. It's obvious they cannot be trusted. Fool me once and all that.

zorg wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:25 am

cakes wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:41 am Democrats can't win on small, incremental changes. And frankly, the small, incremental changes haven't changed anyone's economic position that aren't wealthy.

I'm no economist, but also isn't GDP a woefully outdated means of evaluating anything when the wealth gap is staggering and only getting worse?

That's like when my sister in-law during Trump's first time was like, "isn't the economy great!" and I asked her how her stock portfolio was doing, and she shut the fuck up.

rsmurphy wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:29 am The way how the GOP was ultimately taken over by MAGA needs to happen with the DNC but obviously with a smarter and more concerned movement. The DNC is dead and if they try to come back they'll be coming back with the same bullshit. It's obvious they cannot be trusted. Fool me once and all that.

It's a hard pill to swallow, but this is true. The democrats have had their heads in their asses for decades and still don't get it. The GOP does and have proven to be willing to be reckless in the pursuit of power. Tie that with the general human concept that a harder path is usually the right way, so most people take the easier path, here we are.

penningtron wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:12 am

cakes wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:41 am So, the only optimism to find here is that when things get worse--and they will, because they did last time--then the only people to blame will be those in charge. At least that has historically been the trend in politics, and it certainly ended Trump's first term.

Someone talk me off a ledge and tell me what's stopping them, with their slim Senate majority, from ending the filibuster, or packing the courts? They aren't actually concerned with upholding constitutional or legal norms, they're interested in permanent minority rule. It's hard having any faith in "this means we will be able to get them next time!" talk.

Minority rule? He won the popular vote this time. This is America now.

zorg wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:25 am

cakes wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:41 am Democrats can't win on small, incremental changes. And frankly, the small, incremental changes haven't changed anyone's economic position that aren't wealthy.

I'm no economist, but also isn't GDP a woefully outdated means of evaluating anything when the wealth gap is staggering and only getting worse?

GDP and the stock market as indicators of the health of the economy are beyond irrelevant now. Theyre ludicrously detached from everyday experience. In the UK you have the insane cognitive dissonance of house prices… they are nuts here, especially in London but even “progressive” media like the Guardian jump on any drop as a sign of government policy going badly. The cost of housing is one of the biggest drags on living standards for everyone.

penningtron wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:12 am

cakes wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:41 am So, the only optimism to find here is that when things get worse--and they will, because they did last time--then the only people to blame will be those in charge. At least that has historically been the trend in politics, and it certainly ended Trump's first term.

Someone talk me off a ledge and tell me what's stopping them, with their slim Senate majority, from ending the filibuster, or packing the courts? They aren't actually concerned with upholding constitutional or legal norms, they're interested in permanent minority rule. It's hard having any faith in "this means we will be able to get them next time!" talk.

I think they can try all those shenanigans, but they'd literally have to get rid of elections and suspend the constitution, otherwise the Dems could win and have the same power. The only thing holding both parties back is this basic idea. I honestly believe that probably 30% of the electorate would be fine with it, but it would probably cause riots and violence, and if the response is to use the military, then we are set for the end of the country.

I dunno, I have kids and I'm living a pretty normie life at the moment, and I don't think most Trump supporters are going to want to actually deal with these consequences when it becomes a reality when I think of others like me in that respect. Get rid of the department of ed? And replace it with what? Everyone wants their children educated. Get rid of SS and what? Do we all get a refund? You're telling me that people who voted for Trump because of the price of eggs will be cool with SS ending and not getting any of that money back?

I guess what I'm saying is, we're in uncharted waters and our only guidance is our own history.

penningtron wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:12 am Someone talk me off a ledge and tell me what's stopping them, with their slim Senate majority, from ending the filibuster, or packing the courts? They aren't actually concerned with upholding constitutional or legal norms, they're interested in permanent minority rule. It's hard having any faith in "this means we will be able to get them next time!" talk.

Only direct action will provide any opposition. That's the reality.