ChudFusk wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:12 pm

ErickC wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:20 pmI think anyone who is LGBTQ or brown or female ought to seriously consider arming themselves, and I don't really care how upset white liberals who don't have to worry about getting beaten up or raped or shot get about it.

I’ve been saying this forever. Do we really want the fascists and fanatics to be the only ones with guns? Who do you think they have their AR-15 arsenals aimed at?

The problem with guns is that data shows most are used for suicides, domestic arguments, or against the owner in robberies/home protection/fights.

The idea is good, but. Maybe just build a way to pour burning tar on their heads if they're trying to get into your place.

Curry Pervert wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:36 pm Did you even read your own link?

It explains what the facilities are. It links to another article with more details. The fact sheet contains no "admission" at all, still less does the article, I really have no idea what you're talking about. Possibly you think you discovered a clincher in that the facilites are "funded" while not being "owned", but the point is and has always been that there are no "biolabs". Literally only the number "46" bears any relation to the original claims.

Numerous other countries have participated in this Threat Reduction Program, including Russia.

Curry Pervert wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:36 pmWow. Help the army....

I count 18 military-related listings and 55 non-military ones - for medical care, refugee assistance, even frickin' zoo animals. I linked it specifically because it has a wide range of choices. The Help Ukraine Center and the Red Cross that you mentioned are themselves listed here. And you know who receives and helps distribute aid from the Help Ukraine Center? The army! As you can see on their website.

The army is also right now helping Ukrainians survive against an enemy who has openly and elaborately stated their intent of eradicating Ukraine as a nation and Ukrainians as people. An enemy whose propaganda you are helping to circulate. Reports from the regions controlled by the Russian army leave no doubt as to what living under their occupation is like. But you insist that this enemy's "legitimate concerns" over biolabs, nazis and proxies, the bunk justifications for their unprovoked invasion (except insofar as the very idea of an independent Ukraine is a provocation to them), should receive some place of respect here.

And you do so by repeating easily disprovable falsehoods. Years after the fact. You get indignant when this is pointed out to you, then you haggle over precise wordings as if they make a difference. A person on this board with family from Ukraine has gone over this with you, seemingly numerous times, eloquently and patiently, and you ignore all of this. And who knows how long he's had to suffer your ass. I hope to dear God you're a newer member and you haven't been hanging around since 2014.

The things you talk about here do not refer to anything real and the only practical effect they have is to help Russia and undermine Ukraine.

Gramsci wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:15 am He’s on the money. It’s a bit clumsy but he’s right that if you put a better economic foundation under everyone sexual and gender minorities actually benefit the most. Sure, individual feelings on the matter might not be being addressed directly but the problems you have are being addressed both materially and emotionally. There’s also externalities that if society isn’t a Hunger Games fight for scarce resources then the space for othering minorities closes. Just look at data of post war unionised white workers, they were less bigoted than their non union counterparts. During an era when bigotry was the norm.

Like Bernie’s postmortem, which was attacked for pointing out material conditions as the primary issue, and DNC goblin screams “why are ignoring the Gays you monster”. He wasn’t ignoring anyone, he was including everyone.

He isn’t on the fucking money at all, he is accepting the GOP lie that the dems ran a campaign on social issues over that stuff when it reality they didn’t fucking campaign on *anything*. He is giving a false dichotomy that you can’t care about and campaign on multiple issues at the same time. He dismisses people who care about trans rights and Palestinian genocide as “privileged” when marginalized people have been uniting around this stuff.

Between your and hbidenonlyfan’s posts in this topic I am asking you to please shut the fuck up when it comes to issues involving trans issues being unfairly pitted against other ones. And please take your class reductionism and shove it up your ass, you’re not going to magically erase transphobia and misogyny by just focusing on class issues, and to constantly hear from (almost *always*) men on the left that our needs and concerns have to come second, as if they are “extra” and not something essential we are actively deprived of, is fucking infuriating and not helping your goddamn cause.

My community is *filled* with trans people who were burnt out of left-wing organizations due to their refusal to actually engage with transphobia and misogyny within their organizations to the point of expelling victims of sexual assault over their abusers for the sake of “unity”. I can personally attest that I left several orgs after complaining about transmisogyny I experienced and racism expressed by members that the organizers did fuck all about because they didn’t want to rock the boat. I’m so sick of this attitude of “we need to focus on class issues first, then we can deal with yours (aka the ones that don’t affect us privileged white cis men)” not just because of the downplaying of our struggles, but because you never seem to actually *get* to dealing with those issues and whenever you experience failure, you fucking blame your losses on the “divisiveness” of those issues and the insistence of marginalized people to actually tackle them

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 1:13 am

Hairy Caul wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:23 pm Without more information about this individual, that is an unfair judgment.

The most powerful effect of being crushed by your material circumstances is a lack of mental/financial resources to adequately engage with the world you live in...

It's only an unfair judgement if you're someone else who never does a lick of necessary work, and is terrified of any heat or blame landing right across your useless shoulders.

Right? How many free, non-partisan ballot resources exist. Short of that, maybe engage with people that don't already think exactly like you: those who aren't getting the same FB feed targeting "persuadables".

The truly beaten down don't have time for any of this. Otherwise it's hard to feel sorry for the ignorant.

“Hey, can we deal with misogyny/transphobia” within our organization?”

“We are, by focusing on class issues that affect everyone, it improves all our material conditions and people will be less misogynistic/transphobic!”

“Yeah but, we’re experiencing this shit now, from people within our own organization, and it’s making us not want to show up”

“It’s likely to cause divisiveness and we need unity if we’re going to succeed”

“It already *is* causing divisiveness, that’s why we’re bringing it up”

“We need to focus on what is affecting most of our coalition, we can’t give special treatment to you if it makes us weaker”

“It’s not “special treatment”, our needs are the same as yours, but we’re being actively deprived of them based on gender. What makes us weaker is casting us aside in favor of the support of bigots”

“Sorry, but there’s more of them than there are of you so we aren’t going to do anything about them, and to give an air of justification we are going to flatten all our analysis down to class and blame you for causing divisiveness for wanting us to tackle your bourgeoisie issues that don’t affect everyday working white cis men”

(The last part is usually left unsaid, but there is a long, long history of leftists painting LGBTQ issues as “bourgeoisie” that continues to this day)

speedie wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 3:06 am

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 1:07 am

ChudFusk wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:12 pm
I’ve been saying this forever. Do we really want the fascists and fanatics to be the only ones with guns? Who do you think they have their AR-15 arsenals aimed at?

Exactly.

well, yeah. If I find you in my house, you're going to have a bad time, how is this even a talking point?

i don't know. maybe kenneth walker does.

On another note, I think this is a very good point. I and dozens of my friends volunteered for previous dem campaigns (including Sanders during the primaries), even though they were not completely aligned on everything with us. I stopped after being sexually assaulted and seeing the party refuse to tackle the issue within their own ranks, as their hypocrisy revealed itself and I literally could not find myself to even be around people who were aware of it and chose to continue to volunteer as I would experience severe ptsd symptoms. This year, I knew exactly 1 person in my extended circle of hundreds of people, someone in a leftist book club I was in, who volunteered for the Harris campaign. I and most people I know begrudgingly filled in the bubble next to her as the enemy we’d rather face in office, but the thought of actually volunteering for them as they were committed to supporting Israel’s genocide of Palestinians, especially considering members of our own community had family from there, was beyond the pale for the vast majority of us. The “nag peers to vote” part, like fuck, I feel that. I saw far, far fewer people telling others to vote this year. I couldn’t even bring myself to do it, the best I could muster was to post on social media that “I’m planning on voting for Harris as the enemy I’d rather have in office and I don’t think voting for anyone else/abstaining is a good strategy, but I honestly don’t blame anyone who doesn’t want to”. How the fuck could I say anything more with any real conviction given the dems position on it and the people in my community I love who have family directly affected by it and my own reactions to seeing children blown to pieces by drones supported by the administration? God fucking damn it, fuck Biden and Harris so, so fucking much for what they’ve done

This argument tracks for me. There's a very upsetting setup where LGBTQ+ issues are a liability on the national stage. Harris was far from a vocal ally. She said almost nothing supportive at all. I have heard Trump supporters explain their relief that now they don't need to worry about "men" competing in women's sports. Like that shit was on their mind when they filled out their ballot.

It's like fucking Bill Maher moaning about how we can never stop the Republicans if we're talking about people's bathroom rights. It tells me that the electorate , even among dems and absolutely among independents is still regressive on Trans rights.

Hex, I see you. My trans friends are freaking out right now too. I'm as disappointed in the feckless allyship among the left as I am horrified at the bare cruelty visible on the right. I don't want to participate in a bargain where to successfully get a leader who helps the working class we back having no political courage to stand up for the most vulnerable people in our society (which is arguably what just happened and we lost). Those principles are basic Martin Luther King shit. Everybody gets a seat.

losthighway wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:19 am This argument tracks for me. There's a very upsetting setup where LGBTQ+ issues are a liability on the national stage. Harris was far from a vocal ally. She said almost nothing supportive at all. I have heard Trump supporters explain their relief that now they don't need to worry about "men" competing in women's sports. Like that shit was on their mind when they filled out their ballot.

It's like fucking Bill Maher moaning about how we can never stop the Republicans if we're talking about people's bathroom rights. It tells me that the electorate , even among dems and absolutely among independents is still regressive on Trans rights.

Erin Reed is spot on addressing that: Almost *no one* had this panic about trans people until the Republicans made it an issue. And the Democrats not only refused to stand up for us, but they refused to point out that the GOP were the ones obsessed with us and our genitals and creating fear out of nothing. The closest they got was Walz calling them “weird” after which for some inexplicable reason they decided to muzzle him. Thus the GOP got away easily with pushing the idea that “social issues are opposed to class issues” (hmm, awfully similar with my experiences with leftist groups reducing everything to class) and the Democrats failed at both combating that narrative and actually having a campaign with strong messaging on *either*

Hex wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:29 am

losthighway wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:19 am This argument tracks for me. There's a very upsetting setup where LGBTQ+ issues are a liability on the national stage. Harris was far from a vocal ally. She said almost nothing supportive at all. I have heard Trump supporters explain their relief that now they don't need to worry about "men" competing in women's sports. Like that shit was on their mind when they filled out their ballot.

It's like fucking Bill Maher moaning about how we can never stop the Republicans if we're talking about people's bathroom rights. It tells me that the electorate , even among dems and absolutely among independents is still regressive on Trans rights.

Erin Reed is spot on addressing that:

Almost *no one* had this panic about trans people until the Republicans made it an issue. And the Democrats not only refused to stand up for us, but they refused to point out that the GOP were the ones obsessed with us and our genitals and creating fear out of nothing. The closest they got was Walz calling them “weird” after which for some inexplicable reason they decided to muzzle him. Thus the GOP got away easily with pushing the idea that “social issues are opposed to class issues” (hmm, awfully similar with my experiences with leftist groups reducing everything to class) and the Democrats failed at both combating that narrative and actually having a campaign with strong messaging on *either*

you are not lying. the only people who actually cared are the parents of highly competitive girls. they ran those ads because they work.
every republican challenger would love to see a transgender girl get an athletic scholarship
and the democrats will be caught flat footed again.