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C/NC: Gleeful reactions to horrible events happening to people we don't like

Crap-good riddance
Total votes: 7 (37%)
Not crap-shouldn't happen to anybody
Total votes: 7 (37%)
Who cares?
Total votes: 5 (26%)
Total votes: 19

Re: C/NC: Gleeful reactions to horrible events happening to people we don't like

81 by Gramsci
A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:07 am
Gramsci wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 12:26 pm Yeah, I’m just trying to come up with reasons for people to not murder people.
Some people choose to be in the crosshairs. They almost always get away. Don't waste your energy.
Again, I can’t disagree. Honestly, it surprises me this doesn’t happen more often considering the US gun culture and increasingly violent political climate.
clocker bob may 30, 2006 wrote:I think the possibility of interbreeding between an earthly species and an extraterrestrial species is as believable as any other explanation for the existence of George W. Bush.

Re: C/NC: Gleeful reactions to horrible events happening to people we don't like

83 by losthighway
Hex wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:22 am Why the *fuck* do you care about vigilante violence by marginalized people more than the systemic violence by these manipulative assholes who lie and paint us as monsters?
That's a straw man. No one here does.

Your claims of injustice are not up for debate. They are valid and in my view righteous.

What you're arguing is how we view violence. That's armchair stuff. It's a debate worth having. It's not action, it's discussion.

Are you preparing to take out the next insurance tycoon? If you are, someone's lofty views on non-violence are not going to stop you. Otherwise we're just people sitting in a room judging things we have never done and will never do. In either position an equal number of business moguls die/survive.

Re: C/NC: Gleeful reactions to horrible events happening to people we don't like

84 by jeff fox
The glee is an emotional response to vindication/revenge. Seeing the bully get knocked the fuck out. No one harmed by schadenfreude.

I hate the serial killer analogy. Not sure how you classify some of those people as ‘sane’, and it’s a stretch to say that killing them is protecting society. They’re already in prison and I frankly don’t care what happens to them one way or another. CEO’s have committed no crimes (even though we’ve proven that yes, the companies have, with their denying coverage, people are generally powerless in court). They aren’t fugitives. This is the only line of defense.

But this act is already proving to be effective in getting shit in motion. We’ll see if that continues. It boggles my mind that healthcare is not the number one issue for every single American who isn’t ultra wealthy. We are all a moment away from ruin, insured or not.
Last edited by jeff fox on Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
gonzochicago wrote: Doubling down on life, I guess you could say.

Re: C/NC: Gleeful reactions to horrible events happening to people we don't like

87 by OrthodoxEaster
A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 5:44 am
Gramsci wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 4:54 am Honestly, it surprises me this doesn’t happen more often considering the US gun culture and increasingly violent political climate.
We can but hope. Seems the "we're not covering overtime anaesthetic" people changed their tune in short order at the sight of customers 'pushing back'.
You know though, any causal relationship seems maybe far-fetched to me.

Sure, the insurance company (not the same one, I should add) did that. And maybe sensed a great PR opportunity.

Thing is, huge billing decisions like that aren't made overnight: There are boards and lawyers and all kinds of consultations and bureaucracy. This is a huge, rival company.

So I suspect that decision had been brewing for a while. Of course, I can't be sure. But insurance companies don't just snap their fingers when a rival CEO gets murdered and make calls like so. It's not some evil dicks rubbing their fingers together in a room making snap decisions. (Well, not entirely. And the industry would probably be less Byzantine and fucked up if it were, honestly. These are huge corporate machines w/lots of moving parts, which is part of why getting a human to discuss your bill takes months of appeal. These fuckers tend to be craftier and more methodical than that.)

The boring-ass public (and its lawyers) had been fighting that Blue Cross decision since November. The governor of NYC had her hand in appealing the decision after complaints to her office. It would seem this did not go down in one day's time. Despite those great (honestly, great) optics for Blue Cross!
Last edited by OrthodoxEaster on Sat Dec 07, 2024 11:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

Re: C/NC: Gleeful reactions to horrible events happening to people we don't like

88 by The Yeoman Ghost
OrthodoxEaster wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 9:45 pm
ChudFusk wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 9:26 pm
OrthodoxEaster wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 9:14 pmI don't care if the state or some vigilante ass is doing the killing.
Again, if you can't tell the difference between state-sponsored execution (of people who far too often don't get a fair trial and are victims of racial discrimination) and a lone wolf vigilante cutting off one of the heads of the hydra, then maybe you are part of the problem.
To use a recent and relevant example, executing a dude like say, Rex Heuermann (white guy w/means, seems sane, murdered sex workers), solves absolutely nothing. If he's found guilty, which he probably will be, let him rot in jail.
I’m adamantly opposed to the death penalty on moral grounds. But that assumes that the alternative, at the end of an adversarial judicial proceeding in which the defendant is found guilty by a jury of his peers beyond a reasonable doubt, is incarceration.

Vigilantism happens when people perceive that the legal system is powerless, or unwilling, to hold a wrongdoer to the wrongdoer’s end of the social contract. Someone upthread stated that Thompson’s killing robbed of our chance to see real justice done, with Thompson in court or squirming under Congressional questioning. The near certainty that neither of those things was ever going to happen—that neither was even within the realm of reasonable possibility—is precisely why this happened.
Tone attorney formerly known as Tom Lael is Dogs.

Re: C/NC: Gleeful reactions to horrible events happening to people we don't like

89 by Hex
losthighway wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 7:59 am
Hex wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:22 am Why the *fuck* do you care about vigilante violence by marginalized people more than the systemic violence by these manipulative assholes who lie and paint us as monsters?
That's a straw man. No one here does.
I don’t believe that; the responses of several people here (and many more elsewhere) certainly indicate otherwise.
Are you preparing to take out the next insurance tycoon? If you are, someone's lofty views on non-violence are not going to stop you. Otherwise we're just people sitting in a room judging things we have never done and will never do. In either position an equal number of business moguls die/survive.
People’s views on violence absolutely affect broader struggles. One of the things I outlined in previous posts is that the law is immaterial, intangible, and only “protects” people in power as long as the concept of it exists in people’s minds and is respected and adhered to. How people react to it affects others, and social pressures can be massive forces in shaping people’s own attitudes and actions. People’s views can mean the difference between movements gaining steam or fizzling out. They might not stop someone who is going to do something anyways, but they can certainly help provide a less hostile environment for them and encourage broader actions.

I do not believe at all that “an equal number of business moguls die/survive” between scenarios where the prevailing social attitudes are “directly killing someone using physical force for any reason whatsoever is unacceptable” vs “some people in positions of power are de facto above the law and use it to enact systemic violence on masses and it’s acceptable to use direct force on them”

Re: C/NC: Gleeful reactions to horrible events happening to people we don't like

90 by OrthodoxEaster
OrthodoxEaster wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:00 pm
The Yeoman Ghost wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 11:47 am
OrthodoxEaster wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 9:45 pm

To use a recent and relevant example, executing a dude like say, Rex Heuermann (white guy w/means, seems sane, murdered sex workers), solves absolutely nothing. If he's found guilty, which he probably will be, let him rot in jail.
I’m adamantly opposed to the death penalty on moral grounds. But that assumes that the alternative, at the end of an adversarial judicial proceeding in which the defendant is found guilty by a jury of his peers beyond a reasonable doubt, is incarceration.

Vigilantism happens when people perceive that the legal system is powerless, or unwilling, to hold a wrongdoer to the wrongdoer’s end of the social contract. Someone upthread stated that Thompson’s killing robbed of our chance to see real justice done, with Thompson in court or squirming under Congressional questioning. The near certainty that neither of those things was ever going to happen—that neither was even within the realm of reasonable possibility—is precisely why this happened.
jeff fox wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:45 am The glee is an emotional response to vindication/revenge. Seeing the bully get knocked the fuck out. No one harmed by schadenfreude.

I hate the serial killer analogy. Not sure how you classify some of those people as ‘sane’, and it’s a stretch to say that killing them is protecting society. They’re already in prison and I frankly don’t care what happens to them one way or another. CEO’s have committed no crimes (even though we’ve proven that yes, the companies have, with their denying coverage, people are generally powerless in court). They aren’t fugitives. This is the only line of defense.

But this act is already proving to be effective in getting shit in motion. We’ll see if that continues. It boggles my mind that healthcare is not the number one issue for every single American who isn’t ultra wealthy. We are all a moment away from ruin, insured or not.
I agree w/Foxy completely about health insurance. It's actually been my #1 issue in terms of voting, along w/environmental policy, for decades. System was fucked up when nobody wanted to hear about it, back in the '90s.

(Not on this forum, but the funny thing is that some of these same people cheering this murder voted for Trump, and believe his "deregulation" proposal for insurance will actually solve all this. B/c Trump will stick it to the man... w/pure free-market chaos, baby!)

I meant "sane" in terms of the legal definition of a serial killer being deemed responsible for his actions. As opposed to, I dunno, someone w/severe PTSD who felt "threatened" and heard voices and shit.

You don't think serial killers like Heuermann (well-off, white, "quiet" suburban neighbor type) might sometimes get away w/shit? The vastness of the national list of missing persons and unsolved crimes might imply otherwise.

And over the years, there have certainly been insurance execs who've rotted in prison. A quick Google search confirms this. Whether that's softie white-collar prison or not is another story.

All I can say is, the "logic" is dangerously close to something like Jan. 6. Sure, those people were brainwashed dipshits. And I think they suck. But that's also irrelevant: They believed in what they were doing and thought they were solving an "injustice" w/violence.

That's a shitty precedent that I want no part of, regardless of the ideology behind it. I don't want to live in a society where this stuff becomes any more "normal" than it already is. That's all I'm sayin'.
Last edited by OrthodoxEaster on Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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