ChudFusk wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2024 6:08 pm Quoting this because it must not be forgotten. OrthodoxEaster, i think you're a good dude and you mean well, but it's so naive to think that we can shop our way out of this. If consumer choices could change anything then all the green ink and plastic and all the pink ribbons on boxes of corn flakes would have done something by now. We have been conned into thinking that there is such a thing as ethical consumption. Nobody is going to boycott insurance companies or any other sector of the marketplace, not at the magnitude necessary to enact change. People are dumber and weaker now than ever. I'm not saying that executing executives is the only hypothetical solution, but it's a pretty good one.

whew, not alone

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2024 10:20 pm And I didn't say we would "shop our way out of this."

That is precisely how I would describe this proposition:

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:21 am Fuck all that. It's very easy to live like so and opt out. Always has been. (Granted, it's more complicated w/healthcare, but hear me out...)

If people did this en masse, it would make way, way more of a point than just shooting Musk or Bezos. Their enterprises would crumble.

America: die from a preventable disease in the throes of bankruptcy.

Bernardo wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 6:43 am

ChudFusk wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2024 6:08 pm Quoting this because it must not be forgotten. OrthodoxEaster, i think you're a good dude and you mean well, but it's so naive to think that we can shop our way out of this. If consumer choices could change anything then all the green ink and plastic and all the pink ribbons on boxes of corn flakes would have done something by now. We have been conned into thinking that there is such a thing as ethical consumption. Nobody is going to boycott insurance companies or any other sector of the marketplace, not at the magnitude necessary to enact change. People are dumber and weaker now than ever. I'm not saying that executing executives is the only hypothetical solution, but it's a pretty good one.

whew, not alone

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2024 10:20 pm And I didn't say we would "shop our way out of this."

That is precisely how I would describe this proposition:

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:21 am Fuck all that. It's very easy to live like so and opt out. Always has been. (Granted, it's more complicated w/healthcare, but hear me out...)

If people did this en masse, it would make way, way more of a point than just shooting Musk or Bezos. Their enterprises would crumble.

Or, you conveniently chose to weirdly emphasize the kicker instead of the lead. That's not how comprehension works.

The first point I made after saying "fuck that":

Webster's:

opt out
verb
opted out; opting out; opts out
intransitive verb
: to choose not to participate in something —often used with of

That doesn't mean the same as making shopping choices. It means to not participate.

Maybe it's far from a perfect sentiment, but it's a lot more realistic than video game-like fantasies of assassins sparking mass change. When, in fact, they seem to be just rando rich-boys w/mental problems.

But you know, think what you wanna think.

Nah. Aside from hoarding more wealth than most people on earth, both of those guys have their hands in many industries and have secured government contracts. It's not possible to just boycott them at this point.

I guess you can start writing your reps and urge government agencies not use AWS or fund Space X or Starlink, but good luck.

Krev wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 9:27 am America: die from a preventable disease in the throes of bankruptcy.

Cheers!

Probably not on purpose, but you just added a great new couplet to Naked Raygun's "Only in America," from 1984:

You start your own company
Only in America
Mixing chemicals a new way
Only in America
It's good for the economy
Only in America
Makin' cancer everyday
Only in america

Then someone can make a buck
With the cure for your bad luck
When you're born you start to die
Don't know from what
And you don't know why

So you start your own religious cult
Only in America
Live on the San Andreas Fault
Only in America
Eat your own weight in salt
Only in America
Pick your boogers in your car
Only in America

Then someone can make a buck
With the cure for your bad luck
You buy a couch with food stamps
Be the woman with Midol cramps

It happens only in the USA
Only in America
Only in the USA
Only in America
Only in the USA
Only in America
Only in the USA

One thing that could do some of these companies in:

Massive data breach

You would think that "affluent liberals" in places like Seattle would boycott Musk's Tesla, but that's far from the case. Jello Biafra said something to the effect that their progressivism only extends to where it doesn't affect their wallets.

penningtron wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 9:42 am Nah. Aside from hoarding more wealth than most people on earth, both of those guys have their hands in many industries and have secured government contracts. It's not possible to just boycott them at this point.

I guess you can start writing your reps and urge government agencies not use AWS or fund Space X or Starlink, but good luck.

At the same time, it's not like anyone has actually tried. Especially when those guys weren't quite so ubiquitous and huge.

People complain, but many people are also willing victims before they start complaining.

And again, the point I'm making is that a million or even a few hundred thousand people not paying their premiums for a month or canceling an Amazon account forever would go a long way to a better world than killing a CEO. Who just gets replaced by a well-trained VP or some shit. Too simplistic.

Companies hate losing large sums of money coupled w/bad PR. Manpower, even business leaders, that's much more expendable.

Krev wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 9:53 am You would think that "affluent liberals" in places like Seattle would boycott Musk's Tesla, but that's far from the case. Jello Biafra said something to the effect that their progressivism only extends to where it doesn't affect their wallets.

Fuck, yes. Righto. I had liberal acquaintances who admired the living shit out of Tesla, maybe a decade ago, before Musk's true colors began to show. Save the planet type shit. Ooh, isn't it futuristic?

I didn't get their fascination at all. This guy!? I'd yell at the bar. Dig a little.

But you know, people on the left and right and in the center tend to be dazzled by tech crap. And... bullshit artists!

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 9:55 am And again, the point I'm making is that a million or even a few hundred thousand people not paying their premiums for a month or canceling an Amazon account forever would go a long way to a better world than killing a CEO. Who just gets replaced by a well-trained VP or some shit. Too simplistic.

The other end of that is that boycott money then just ends up at WalMart, Target, Apple, Google, etc. instead. So unless someone is up and ready to go fully off the grid, I'm not impressed with their cancelled WaPo subscription or whatever.