I’ve never heard a Steely Dan song. Where to start?

Gramsci wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 4:48 am I’ve never heard a Steely Dan song. Where to start?

I've never heard a single fan of steely dan talk about 'studio perfection' or the quality of the recordings. Not one. Yet that's 100% of what their detractors talk about. Where the fuck did this come from? I love the songs. Just say you don't like the songs. Same goes with Pavement- "they're Ivy League slackers, durrrrr". The fuck does that even mean? Just admit you've read a bunch of press about them and MAYBE heard a total of 5 songs.

SD could've been recorded by Spot and I'd still love them.

(Flipper has 1.5 albums worth of perfect. the rest is shit.)

jeff fox wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 8:18 am I've never heard a single fan of steely dan talk about 'studio perfection' or the quality of the recordings. Not one. Yet that's 100% of what their detractors talk about. Where the fuck did this come from? I love the songs. Just say you don't like the songs. Same goes with Pavement- "they're Ivy League slackers, durrrrr". The fuck does that even mean? Just admit you've read a bunch of press about them and MAYBE heard a total of 5 songs.

SD could've been recorded by Spot and I'd still love them.

(Flipper has 1.5 albums worth of perfect. the rest is shit.)

If only detractors point to alleged perfection of Steely Dan, then why do 'audiophiles' use Aja, Gaucho and The Nightfly to test new gear? It's not because they're huge fans. There absolutely is the perception that these records are perfect, and that's a product of their production.

I really like Pavement, and played a bunch of shows w/ them a really long time ago. Mark tried out for an old band I was in shortly before he got the SY gig. There's nothing you could say about Pavement that would make me think they aren't exceptional.

Full Disclosure: I've memorized The Nightfly and must have listened to/sang along to it a thousand times. Steely Dan? I appreciate the parts, but the whole often fall flat for me, though I have a real soft spot for Fagan's lyrics and phrasing (that fucker can actually sing). The Nightfly is probably a desert island disc for me.

I like Zappa too, but he was very similar in his desire to break musicians. There's a lot of musicians out there who crushed people's wills as part of the process.

...wasn't spot a world famous rocket engineer?

Steely Dan doesn’t appeal to me, but I think their process is defensible. They had a very distinct and unique vision and worked doggedly to achieve it, and the session musicians they used still had personality. They were perfectionists in the same sense that Stanley Kubrick was.

Zappa, on the other hand, seemed to have worked toward erasing all signs of non-Zappa personality over the course of his career. I don’t like the 1960s records, but the 1970s records just sound like pro gear, pro attitude session musicians playing notes off a sheet in a reverb-free room.

AttackChimp wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 8:51 am There's a lot of musicians out there who crushed people's wills as part of the process.

That's not necessarily for 'perfect' results though. Beefheart and Mark E. Smith did that too.

As far as that Steve quote, it's true that there are a LOT more decent-to-great bands who went on to make overblown, overproduced records than the opposite, ie. "this would be good if they spent way more money on it". In fact I don't know if I could name an example of the latter.

(and I consider audiophiles to be rich/bored hobbyists showing off gear more than true music fans)

Gramsci wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 4:48 am I’ve never heard a Steely Dan song. Where to start?

Queue up Pretzel Logic.

penningtron wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:33 am (and I consider audiophiles to be rich/bored hobbyists showing off gear more than true music fans)

Yup. Well, except for Rollins. He gets a pass.

I have an OG copy of Dark Side of the Moon to foist upon a monied audiophile.

This thread reminds me of experiences I’ve described elsewhere but not here.

My oldest kid and I went to the Axpona audio expo in 2022 and 2023. Yes, tons of snake-oil peddlers demoed their magical surge protectors, and the lion’s share of super-expensive equipment didn’t outperform cheaper alternatives. But on the whole, nearly everything sounds spectacular. It was “perfect.”

However, after I’d get home, I’d find that nothing at Axpona made me feel as if our mid-range equipment was inadequate. Maybe I’d consider adding a sub for a bit.

In 2023, the family visited the phonograph museum in Kanazawa, Japan. As part of the admission, we got to hear a docent demo eight or nine acoustic machines—a cylinder machine, an Edison Diamond Disk machine, and several regular phonographs with varying reproducers and horn configurations.

Those made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I eventually bought one. I want to buy more of them.

*That* experience was by no means “perfect.” It was, however, perfect.