rsmurphy wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:25 pm

AttackChimp wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:03 pm according to US law

now that all 3 branches of govt are controlled by MAGA they will be applying the law how they see fit

We can't change law if we abandon it.

I do understand that the DNC has completely abandoned their constituents. It's a terrible place to be. One party stands aside and allows the other to take over on behalf of their donors.

We have to stop blaming the wrong people for our troubles. Maga isn't the real problem. The real problem is the corporations and "rich people" who have captured our government. We have a major failing of society - billionaires. It all starts there.

attack chimp wrote:Maga isn't the real problem. The real problem is the corporations and "rich people" who have captured our government. We have a major failing of society - billionaires. It all starts there.

The corporations and "rich people" who have captured our government is MAGA or at the very least MAGA-sympathizers. Good luck working within the US legal system!

rsmurphy wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:44 pm The corporations and "rich people" who have captured our government is MAGA

By proxy. Corporations own them.

Look at the numbers for single payer health care. Last time I looked it was north of 73% pro. You can't tell me that every single Maga voter is anti-single payer.

UBI. The numbers on UBI vary, but usually north of 50%. Again, you can't tell me that every single Maga voter is against UBI.

The list goes on. If the DNC wanted to win anything they would court this, but they don't. They don't because they've been asked not to.

There is no hope, literally, for the Republican Party. It's an anti-human hate machine, fueled by corporate money.

AttackChimp wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:48 pm

rsmurphy wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:44 pm The corporations and "rich people" who have captured our government is MAGA

By proxy. Corporations own them.

According to US law corporations are people.

rsmurphy wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:53 pm
According to US law corporations are people.

Yup. That shit needs to end. This is what I'm talking about. Money isn't speech. Corporations aren't people. Fucking Democrat Party sold us out for that shit.

IMO my drunken little brother's vote means more than anything Musk can bring to the table. That's a personal-level thing.

Hex wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 12:59 pm Would you have found it morally repugnant for Jews and queer people under Nazi Germany to ask others to engage in violence against their oppressors? If not, what is different? If it’s a matter of severity, is that only acceptable if enough people are already in camps? Tell me, where’s the line?

Where is the line is an excellent question. To be a true pacifist means there is no line. You do not reach a point that grants a violent response. Your question is so valid because most of us wouldn't make it as far as MLK's people. It's easy for me to say I'm not going to shoot a person because that's just my nature. But would I walk face first into a baton with my hands at my side? Some of my heroes did. I'm probably not that bad ass. I'd hit back when cornered.

But non violence as pointed out is generally our legal norm. That line is already drawn. You're talking about a new one. Where do you draw it?

Who is deserving of violence? To what extent and under what circumstances? How do you respond if someone in your group goes wild with violence, beyond what you condone? History shows us that when loosely organized groups (and even regimented ones) of people commit violence it can become very unprincipaled and chaotic.

AttackChimp wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:56 pm

rsmurphy wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:53 pm
According to US law corporations are people.

Yup. That shit needs to end.

How? Voting?

I do not believe in a hard line. What I can say is that when I and my loved ones and broader community are faced with being placed in prison and subjected to rape and forced detransition if we don’t kill ourselves or allow others to do it, solely for the “crime” of existing in the bodies we want to exist in, then I have no qualms with violence used against those in positions of power for the purpose of removing them from power, making clear that power cannot protect them and diluting its worth, and deterring them from harming us. I wouldn’t want them to be tortured, I don’t want any suffering beyond what would be necessary for liberation.

As for the law being the line, fuck the law. The law, in various places and various times (including here and now), has allowed for things such as slavery, genocide, marital rape, scores of suffering and death. I don’t want “the law” to be the arbiter of whether people like me are allowed to exist or not, or whether others can be owned as property, or if people are forced to carry through unwanted pregnancies, etc. I value the actual felt experiences of people infinitely more than abstract principles like “the law”. If I’m to give a single shit about it, it has to be *in service* to real experiences, not above them.

rsmurphy wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:23 pm

AttackChimp wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:56 pm

rsmurphy wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:53 pm
According to US law corporations are people.

Yup. That shit needs to end.

How? Voting?
-

Yes. For a party that addresses our needs. If the DNC platformed single payer, assisted childcare, negative income tax, flat tax, maximum income, and diverted military spending to massive public works projects they would win. They have to run directly against corporate personhood. They have to court the eat-the-rich vote.

Hex wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:28 pm I don’t want any suffering beyond what would be necessary for liberation.

Okay. Should we march them into trains so they can be relocated to camps where the girls get a flower?

You aren't the only one who can evoke this shit. You write checks you can't cash.

Talking shit about a dead man on his fucking site? To make a point about how violence should be used?

Hex wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:28 pm I don’t want “the law” to be the arbiter of whether people like me are allowed to exist or not,

I do. I want the law to make all people equal, under all circumstances. I want people to be free.

It's probably incongruent to what I'm posting, but I'm a Utopian Anarchist. I believe that life is the most important thing. I believe that we have the capacity to remove violence from our society.