AttackChimp wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 2:07 pm
losthighway wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 1:52 pm
If you think that Ukraine, or any of their backers (U.S., NATO) having ever done anything unethical or provocative makes Putin's invasion justified, you just might be a tankie.
I know not a single leftist who believes this. Not one. Is fucking Sagar Enjeti a leftists now? The fuck?
...I'm pretty sure I just don't get it.
Well, you're sane. I'm sure I painted it in a broad brush but I've seen shades of Putin apologists around.
AttackChimp wrote:
Are you referring to anti-zionists? Yeah, there's a ton of em in the left, but they don't believe the US and Israel are good for ALL evil in the world. Was that just hyperbole to make a point?
I'll be cautious and say that anti-zionists are not all in the same camp. A skepticism towards the mandate of 'holy land' and allowing it to displace people is purely rational to me. We don't need to call all of those thinkers tankies cause they're not, er- I'm not.
But the logical fallacies persist there with some folks. It's very facile for people to see how detrimental U.S. involvement in Israeli interests have been for basic human rights, and then use that undeniable truth to justify all kinds of tangential things. Like Gramsci said about that "Enemy of my enemy" kind of fallacy.
Funny, when the news was all Trump shredding domestic programs we passed the baton around, preacher/choir, "Fuck that!". That's not to talk down on it, I need it. We all need to process the ticking disasters. But, suddenly his foreign policy comes up and we're all fine tuning more nuanced perspectives. I suppose it's because there are more players involved.
Speaking of more players:
Erdogan has been looking to throw his hat in the ring. U.S. media hasn't been too interested in this yet, but it shows a possible rearrangement of the chairs. Turkey cherishes its NATO status and has long sought EU membership. The potential void left by Trump may be an opportunity for him. It would be interesting to see if the EU and Turkey could piece together a shield against Putin and make the U.S. irrelevant. My inner isolationist would say, "more power to them!". Maybe too many games of Risk has installed some kind of neocon in me who wants to say, "You see here Donald, now you've reduced U.S. influence and we're less of a player on the global stage. By being short sighted about expenses and sucking up to despots you've really harmed our interests abroad!". As to what metamorphosis of the regional powers and potential for chaos, violence, vs stability of that equation I have neither the brains nor the education to say.