I guess my point was that I'm having a hard time figuring out how he could be more cruel or fascistic to the Palestinians specifically. Sure, Harris would have wrapped it up in a pretty bow, but that's about it. In some ways Trump might be better for the Palestinians in that the rest of the world is a little bit less comfortable with his blowhard rhetoric, even if they've already happily condoned much worse while the leader of the free world was still maintaining the facade of victimhood. But that's probably just wishful thinking, and they'll fall in line soon enough. At least the Irish aren't going to celebrate St. Patricks Day at the White House. So that's a start.JohnAlbert wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 12:27 am And Trump is bringing a lot more fascism than Harris ever would have done.
Are you going to deny that?
Re: Politics
4462You have a hard time figuring out that Donald Trump is a far more cruel-minded person than Kamala Harris?zorg wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 8:09 amI guess my point was that I'm having a hard time figuring out how he could be more cruel or fascistic to the Palestinians specifically.JohnAlbert wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 12:27 am And Trump is bringing a lot more fascism than Harris ever would have done.
Are you going to deny that?
Are you kidding?
"wrapped it up in a pretty bow"?!?
What exactly is that supposed to mean?
OK dude, I can see that you're not being serious about this conversation. Either that, or you're extremely misinformed, or just plain thick.
Re: Politics
4463Making it about Harris or Trump personally and their positions is missing the point, though the differences are of course not at all insignificant there when it comes to Israel (as are the differences between the parties in general: the Democrats are slowly, albeit grindindly so, shifting away from a default pro-Israel stance).
It's about their respective coalitions and who is susceptible to how much pressure (to change the situation for the better).
Harris would have been susceptible to pressure.
Trump is not.
It's about their respective coalitions and who is susceptible to how much pressure (to change the situation for the better).
Harris would have been susceptible to pressure.
Trump is not.
Re: Politics
4464Hey, sorry if I was being obnoxious, I'm mostly American, so it comes easily. My point was not to disprove you, or to defend Russia. I hope I made it clear in previous posts that I lump them in with the rest of the untenable and corrupt maximalist megastates that rule the world. My thought is I find it disappointing that a place like Sweden or Finland, which are famously the envy of the world with freedoms, copious parental leave, and good math scores want to spend their time grandstanding with these other idiots instead of seeking peace and reconciliation. And so I ask why.Shananiganz wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 12:21 amManaged to find some recent articles in English, just for you. They are threats due Finland joining NATO. Now you'll probably defend Russia and say we caused it by joining NATO?zorg wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 4:18 pmQuote one reliable source.Shananiganz wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 4:11 pm we've heard a lot of threats of invasion during the Putin years.
https://yle.fi/a/74-20045134
https://yle.fi/a/74-20065457
https://yle.fi/a/3-12405420
https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000010212372.html This one is in Finnish, but you can see the cockcocket Medvedev's tweet embedded there.
This is from 2012, still about NATO. The thing is, majority of Finnish people were against joining NATO at this time.
https://jamestown.org/program/general-m ... n-finland/
The mood changed drastically when the Ukrainian invasion kicked off again.
Is this enough? Would you have some tea with it?
I appreciate the references, and while you are completely correct that the mood has soured, nothing here points toward any kind of aggression from Russia. If I missed it please let me know. Otherwise, do you really think that Finland hosting NATO's largest artillery exercise ever held in Europe, while at the same time materially waging a proxy war against Russia all while sanctioning them, is going to endear you to them? I would say considering the circumstances the quotes here are really very diplomatic. From what you sent - Putin on Finland (after the invasion): "Did we have any disputes with them? All disputes, including territorial ones in the mid-20th century, have long since been solved, there were no problems there" You could say that is just a devious lie, but why then have they have loudly shouted their dominion over Ukraine for ages? It's not fair to Ukraine for EU to act like victims.
Finally, no fault of yours, but we have to be exceedingly careful with our sources. It is also happening on a broad scale elsewhere, but Americans have created various NGOs and "Think Tanks" that operate as propaganda machines aligned, but not formally affiliated with the government. The Jamestown Foundation you quoted is a hawkish conservative military organization founded by the CIA to get juicy stories out of Russian defectors.
It's an ugly world out there, lets be nice to each-other, and please not support the military industrial complex, anywhere, ever.
Re: Politics
4465You might have a point there. I guess my concern is that I don't see the pro-Israel lobby faltering.jimmy spako wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:10 am Harris would have been susceptible to pressure.
Trump is not.
Re: Politics
4466Trump is influenced by 1) Money, 2) Praise, and 3) a combination of the two, a few minutes before he takes a stage.jimmy spako wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:10 am It's about their respective coalitions and who is susceptible to how much pressure (to change the situation for the better).
Harris would have been susceptible to pressure.
Trump is not.
Bibi Netanyahu was told about the plan for Gaza only a few minutes before it was announced. Kushner was the last person in Trump's ear about Gaza and now we have 'The Riviera of The Middle East'.
Trump is notorious for saying, "All I need if five minutes, and I'll solve any problem." That roughly translates into, "The last filthy rich person who talks to me, gets their way."
Last edited by AttackChimp on Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Politics
4467More meaningless stuff like this...talking out of both sides of her mouth...y'know...the kind of stuff that makes genocide easier to sell to constituents.JohnAlbert wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 8:33 am"wrapped it up in a pretty bow"?!?
What exactly is that supposed to mean?
"Let me be clear, I will always stand up for Israel's right to defend itself and I will always ensure Israel has the ability to defend itself, Israelis should never again" go through the horror and "unspeakable" attacks of Oct. 7.
"At the same time what has happened in Gaza in the past 10 months is devastating. So many innocent lives lost. The scale of suffering is heartbreaking,"
Re: Politics
4468Your words in my mouth taste like bitter almonds. I'm surprised you haven't noticed the side effects before they leave your own.zorg wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 9:44 pmToo numerous to count, huh? Go on then, I’ll take just one threat to invade Finland or any other EU country.
"And the light, it burns your skin...in a language you don't understand."
Re: Politics
4469Ah, all good!zorg wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:37 amHey, sorry if I was being obnoxious, I'm mostly American, so it comes easily. My point was not to disprove you, or to defend Russia. I hope I made it clear in previous posts that I lump them in with the rest of the untenable and corrupt maximalist megastates that rule the world. My thought is I find it disappointing that a place like Sweden or Finland, which are famously the envy of the world with freedoms, copious parental leave, and good math scores want to spend their time grandstanding with these other idiots instead of seeking peace and reconciliation. And so I ask why.Shananiganz wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 12:21 amManaged to find some recent articles in English, just for you. They are threats due Finland joining NATO. Now you'll probably defend Russia and say we caused it by joining NATO?
https://yle.fi/a/74-20045134
https://yle.fi/a/74-20065457
https://yle.fi/a/3-12405420
https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000010212372.html This one is in Finnish, but you can see the cockcocket Medvedev's tweet embedded there.
This is from 2012, still about NATO. The thing is, majority of Finnish people were against joining NATO at this time.
https://jamestown.org/program/general-m ... n-finland/
The mood changed drastically when the Ukrainian invasion kicked off again.
Is this enough? Would you have some tea with it?
I appreciate the references, and while you are completely correct that the mood has soured, nothing here points toward any kind of aggression from Russia. If I missed it please let me know. Otherwise, do you really think that Finland hosting NATO's largest artillery exercise ever held in Europe, while at the same time materially waging a proxy war against Russia all while sanctioning them, is going to endear you to them? I would say considering the circumstances the quotes here are really very diplomatic. From what you sent - Putin on Finland (after the invasion): "Did we have any disputes with them? All disputes, including territorial ones in the mid-20th century, have long since been solved, there were no problems there" You could say that is just a devious lie, but why then have they have loudly shouted their dominion over Ukraine for ages? It's not fair to Ukraine for EU to act like victims.
Finally, no fault of yours, but we have to be exceedingly careful with our sources. It is also happening on a broad scale elsewhere, but Americans have created various NGOs and "Think Tanks" that operate as propaganda machines aligned, but not formally affiliated with the government. The Jamestown Foundation you quoted is a hawkish conservative military organization founded by the CIA to get juicy stories out of Russian defectors.
It's an ugly world out there, lets be nice to each-other, and please not support the military industrial complex, anywhere, ever.
There has been other instances of Russian generals threatening Finland, but I can't find the articles.
Yes, it probably won't come to blows, but the mood has definitely changed. Finns won't forgive or forget this invasion. I know it's hypocritical since Russia has invaded other countries, but this brought the war too close. A lot of Finnish volunteers are fighting in Ukraine as we type. I kinda admire the bravery (or stupidity) but I value human life more. I have nothing against Russian people and was hoping Russia would've gone the democratic way. Would've loved to visit St. Petersburg and so on.
I'm sure most of the threats are just trolling, to stir some shit up, but we also have to take them somewhat seriously.
And yeah, I was a bit wary about that Jamestown thing, but couldn't find the same info in English else where (I was typing stuff during my morning commute).
Now is indeed not the time to fight with allies. If only the global Left could get their shit together and act. Aaaaaand I, for example, could also do something good to the world.
Re: Politics
4470Firstly, I totally empathise with your position. I've held my nose in almost every election I've voted in and it gets boring. But I think now we have the far right on the rise my nose is getting held again. I really struggled voting for Starmer and Co. (Luckily Corbyn is my local MP). But I voted Lib Dem once to my shame, not that it made a stick of difference in a First Passed the Post election in my constituency... fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice... umm, can't get fooled again.zorg wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:44 amYou might have a point there. I guess my concern is that I don't see the pro-Israel lobby faltering.jimmy spako wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:10 am Harris would have been susceptible to pressure.
Trump is not.
clocker bob may 30, 2006 wrote:I think the possibility of interbreeding between an earthly species and an extraterrestrial species is as believable as any other explanation for the existence of George W. Bush.