Favourite player out of that lot might well be Chris Kontos for me. Love the drumming on the first Machine Head album.

Bernardo wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 3:58 pm

Krev wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:45 am Andreas Kisser was my favorite musician out of the listed bands.

God no, just look at every single thing he did post-Roots.

I don't like Roots, but he was their MVP prior to that. I'm not considering the post-Max stuff in the equation.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:01 pm Favourite player out of that lot might well be Chris Kontos for me. Love the drumming on the first Machine Head album.

That one was a favorite of young me. I'd say his drumming holds up.

I could never choose Machine Head: while they were musically very strong indeed (debut is great, following 2 are good) they were seemingly incapable of independent thought - it was always success in the paradigm set by visionaries and / or marketplace reality

Just can't imagine Burn My Eyes existing if not for Cowboys... & Vulgar...

Will conceded Kontos plays extra great on BME, there's an unrestrained energy there that was clearly their secret sauce early on.

Above average technical ability is generally a given in metal, it's that something else that makes it interesting.

Also, Sepultura is the perfect example of the difference between a great band and great individual players (which not all of them were). It took the Cavalera brothers plus Kisser at that period in time to come into something that's far bigger than the individual parts. They did not come close once they were apart.

I'd argue Vinnie Paul is the most underrated musician in the bunch, his contribution was far more unique than all the layers of DUMB that made Pantera allowed most to realize.

M.H wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 8:11 am I could never choose Machine Head: while they were musically very strong indeed (debut is great, following 2 are good) they were seemingly incapable of independent thought - it was always success in the paradigm set by visionaries and / or marketplace reality

Just can't imagine Burn My Eyes existing if not for Cowboys... & Vulgar...

Will conceded Kontos plays extra great on BME, there's an unrestrained energy there that was clearly their secret sauce early on.

I listened to BME this morning and it was an endurance test. Way too much Biohazard in the mix. But Kontos was excellent throughout.

Prong still takes this one for me. They just lacked the inherent stupidity of groove metal. Also, Force Fed is one of the most underrated thrash records.

Sigh. Can't really vote.

Prong is excellent up till Mike Kirkland leaves (after Beg to Differ). I've actually passed on buying the first demo tape twice in the last year (how does this thing keep turning up in NYC record shops in 2025?) b/c all or most of it wound up on that (scummy, punky, great) first mini album. But there's not much "groove" on that cool early stuff.

Loved mid-to-late-'80s White Zombie as a lo-fi, grimy Birthday Party/Pussy Galore concern w/heavy Misfits (and yes, Kiss) coloring in the imagery department. That first EP was recorded at the rehearsal studio I used for almost 15 years (but well before I rehearsed there). Also, Tom Five is a mofo on the guitar. Did not love them starting w/the thin-sounding, semi-metal Make Them Die Slowly LP. Really can't hang w/their funky honky records.

Sepultura maybe did the best job in terms of actual "groove metal" material and certainly had their moments. Friends of mine liked them in the early '90s, but I never really dug deep enough.

FM OrthodoxEaster, check out Angel Rot if you haven't. It was Tom Five's post-WZ band.

Krev wrote: FM OrthodoxEaster, check out Angel Rot if you haven't. It was Tom Five's post-WZ band.

Hey! I just listened to the first 7-inch on YouTube and wow, that's pretty cool. I remember hearing the name and seeing the graphics at the time and just assuming it was some kinda regular metal band w/Tom Five in the lineup. But not at all. Similarly muffled, filthy vibes to the early White Zombie, but a sound and structure that recalls the best middle-period Black Flag stuff. Yet also different, a harbinger of doom and non-dumb stoner stuff. Quite good. Insane guitar playing, of course. Thanks!

What started groove metal? I seem to remember the groove on “Raining Blood” opening the door, but is there a better early example?