I was doing some more research last night out of curiosity, seems like the Headrush FRFR-112 is what you're looking for.

penningtron wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 7:45 am

TylerDeadPine wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 6:18 pm modeler "life hack" (ick), use an acoustic guitar amplifier.

Good tip. Plus a lot of those are angled like wedges and the audience doesn't even have to look at the earth tone aesthetics.

The irony being that acoustic guitar players are more likely these days just to show up and plug in direct, no matter how ill advised that may be.

The Fender FRFR cab has the posts to tilt back. There's a Tonex FRFR cab coming out in April, also with the posts. Other ones are designed like PA wedges, like the Headrush.

One thing that is nice on some FRFR cabs is offering EQ control. Now, you could set EQ on the modeler, but global EQ on them generally can be cumbersome, especially when you have to remember to go into the menu and change it. That would also affect the entire tone, instead of just dealing with speaker output. The Fender and the new Tonex have some EQ control.

While it's possible just to use a decent PA speaker, the EQ control seems like it would be worth it. At least, from what I was seeing from people reviewing and playing FRFRs.

For bass, I think just using a PA speaker is probably the best option. At least... no one offers a bass FRFR. I'd be curious what a 2x12 FRFR cab would be like for bass, though. Not sure a 1x12 is gonna do the job.

cakes wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 10:00 am One thing that is nice on some FRFR cabs is offering EQ control. Now, you could set EQ on the modeler, but global EQ on them generally can be cumbersome, especially when you have to remember to go into the menu and change it. The Fender and the new Tonex have some EQ control. The Tonex looks like a great deal, considering the other 1x12 offerings, like the Friedman and the Laney.

Kind of a side note to this: I've seen a few "ampless" (or at least, mostly reliant on PA) gigs at this point, sometimes in very nice auditoriums, and any kind of guitar distortion sounds like ass to me: just abrasive and artificial. What might sound good coming out of recording monitors or headphones at normal listening volumes won't necessarily translate to gajillion watt neodymium PAs. Maybe it's a Me Problem being used to the sound of mic'd amps but it doesn't make more excited for contemporary gigs..

penningtron wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 10:18 am

cakes wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 10:00 am One thing that is nice on some FRFR cabs is offering EQ control. Now, you could set EQ on the modeler, but global EQ on them generally can be cumbersome, especially when you have to remember to go into the menu and change it. The Fender and the new Tonex have some EQ control. The Tonex looks like a great deal, considering the other 1x12 offerings, like the Friedman and the Laney.

Kind of a side note to this: I've seen a few "ampless" (or at least, mostly reliant on PA) gigs at this point, sometimes in very nice auditoriums, and any kind of guitar distortion sounds like ass to me: just abrasive and artificial. What might sound good coming out of recording monitors or headphones at normal listening volumes won't necessarily translate to gajillion watt neodymium PAs. Maybe it's a Me Problem being used to the sound of mic'd amps but it doesn't make more excited for contemporary gigs..

This is why EQ on the cabs is nice, though you're probably gonna get the non-EQ'd in the DI to the PA. It does seem odd to me that an IR would sound this way in a PA, since it is technically a mic'd cab. The issue with the FRFR cabs being flat is often attributed to the fact that a traditional cab and an FRFR cab are two different animals, and an FRFR can sound artificial because it's more like a PA and pushes sound differently. Traditional cabs are meant to shape the sound, and the FRFRs are not designed to do that, neither is a PA. Perhaps this is more of an issue with the modeler being used, or maybe the person using the modeler needs to EQ properly? Like, they could play at home with their modeler with mid-range heavy headphones and EQ'd for that with extra brightness.

cakes wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 11:04 am Traditional cabs are meant to shape the sound, and the FRFRs are not designed to do that, neither is a PA. Perhaps this is more of an issue with the modeler being used, or maybe the person using the modeler needs to EQ properly? Like, they could play at home with their modeler with mid-range heavy headphones and EQ'd for that with extra brightness.

Yeah. I would describe the sound as 'putting your ear next the center of the cone', except the whole room sounds like that.

I would just err on both the darker side and less gain-y sounds for this.

penningtron wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 11:16 am

cakes wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 11:04 am Traditional cabs are meant to shape the sound, and the FRFRs are not designed to do that, neither is a PA. Perhaps this is more of an issue with the modeler being used, or maybe the person using the modeler needs to EQ properly? Like, they could play at home with their modeler with mid-range heavy headphones and EQ'd for that with extra brightness.

Yeah. I would describe the sound as 'putting your ear next the center of the cone', except the whole room sounds like that.

I would just err on both the darker side and less gain-y sounds for this.

There's definitely different variables at play when doing modeling, and even more when using an FRFR cab. Treating them like traditional gear is a mistake.

This is a really good video on dealing with FRFR/PAs with modelers:



He made another one more recently that has more info:



In both of these, he makes a really good point on EQing for PAs.

cakes wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 2:01 pm In both of these, he makes a really good point on EQing for PAs.

I kinda thought that was the role of the speaker emulator, as guitar speakers shouldn't produce much over 5k or so (or below 90hz). But rolling off treble and adding some artificial space is probably a good call.

Edit: thinking it over a bit more, guitar we're used to experiencing at shows is likely a more narrow range when we factor in physical distances and mediocre acoustics. So the extra EQ stage could be 'emulating' some of that.

penningtron wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 2:22 pm I kinda thought that was the role of the speaker emulator, as guitar speakers shouldn't produce much over 5k or so (or below 90hz). But rolling off treble and adding some artificial space is probably a good call.

He also makes an interesting point in the second video for just using PA speakers. Not sure I'd do it if I were to use an FRFR.

penningtron wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 2:22 pm Edit: thinking it over a bit more, guitar we're used to experiencing at shows is likely a more narrow range when we factor in physical distances and mediocre acoustics. So the extra EQ stage could be 'emulating' some of that.

He addresses this in one of the videos. The FRFR/PA speakers can handle a fuller range than a guitar speaker. IRs aren't just the speaker, they include the mic as well as it's position. If you've ever mixed music, you know that the mic adds its own color and sometimes certain frequencies need to be addressed. I think this is how you ought to go about it.

On both modelers I have, there's a post-EQ section to deal with these problems.

FRFR speakers aren't really necessary unless you are in a busy touring band. I have been running my Boss IR-2 through a very affordable and compact pair of PA speakers and it sounds just fine. If you really want the sensation of a well built heavy duty speaker cab vibrating to your riffage, you might as well just play through a real guitar amp/cab.