Kniferide wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 7:36 pmIt's basically a way to sell a powered PA speaker to guitar players that want their PA speakers to look like the types of amps Boomers used.

That's basically it. I'm sure an argument could be made that you need the heft of a wooden cabinet to articulate the nuance of guitar tone, but that should have been part of the modeling/cab sim process. But now I'm just talking about stuff like the Fender FRFRs, as the Headrush ones look like PA speakers. So to FM cakes' point, yeah it doesn't really matter and is all about personal preference. I just think there is too much "here's what you SHOULD have" in the gearosphere when it comes to FRFR etc.

ChudFusk wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 11:15 am

Kniferide wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 7:36 pmIt's basically a way to sell a powered PA speaker to guitar players that want their PA speakers to look like the types of amps Boomers used.

That's basically it. I'm sure an argument could be made that you need the heft of a wooden cabinet to articulate the nuance of guitar tone, but that should have been part of the modeling/cab sim process. But now I'm just talking about stuff like the Fender FRFRs, as the Headrush ones look like PA speakers. So to FM cakes' point, yeah it doesn't really matter and is all about personal preference. I just think there is too much "here's what you SHOULD have" in the gearosphere when it comes to FRFR etc.

What I really want is a tiny completely clean class d amp of about 200-400 watts that fits on a pedal board and only has a volume knob on it. For like $150. I have speaker cabs.

Kniferide wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 12:41 pm

ChudFusk wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 11:15 am

Kniferide wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 7:36 pmIt's basically a way to sell a powered PA speaker to guitar players that want their PA speakers to look like the types of amps Boomers used.

That's basically it. I'm sure an argument could be made that you need the heft of a wooden cabinet to articulate the nuance of guitar tone, but that should have been part of the modeling/cab sim process. But now I'm just talking about stuff like the Fender FRFRs, as the Headrush ones look like PA speakers. So to FM cakes' point, yeah it doesn't really matter and is all about personal preference. I just think there is too much "here's what you SHOULD have" in the gearosphere when it comes to FRFR etc.

What I really want is a tiny completely clean class d amp of about 200-400 watts that fits on a pedal board and only has a volume knob on it. For like $150. I have speaker cabs.

That exists, but not at the price. Check out the Seymour Duncan PowerStage 170 (170w) or the Ashdown Newt (200w). Both class D and pedalboard sizes. The PowerStage is 85w at 8ohms (this is the one I use with a 2x12 cab) and the Ashdown is 100w at the same rating.

If you need bass, I am not convinced there's a powerful enough class D that exists, other than the Seymore Duncan PowerStage 700 Bass, which would be about 250w @ 8ohms, but also costs like $700.

I really love the PowerStage, and they make other offerings, but this one is the simplest and has plenty of power for guitar before clipping. It doesn't fit on my board per se, but it is designed for pedalboards.

(EDIT: Had the wrong math on the wattage)

cakes wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:12 pm Seymour Duncan PowerStage 170 (170w) ... class D and pedalboard size. The PowerStage is 45w at 8ohms (this is the one I use with a 2x12 cab)

Is this a stereo setup, or is that just the wattage drop from mismatched resistance?

(I've played with the 100/50w configurations on a Quilter and couldn't really hear a volume difference really)

penningtron wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:37 pm

cakes wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:12 pm Seymour Duncan PowerStage 170 (170w) ... class D and pedalboard size. The PowerStage is 45w at 8ohms (this is the one I use with a 2x12 cab)

Is this a stereo setup, or is that just the wattage drop from mismatched resistance?

(I've played with the 100/50w configurations on a Quilter and couldn't really hear a volume difference really)

The 170 is not stereo, but the 200 is and rated at 200w.

Class D ratings are very misleading. There's a thread here where we talk about this, but I forget where. The 170 was about 85w on my cab. That is just enough. (My old tube amp was running at about 60w and I never got it past 10 o'clock on the master volume, for comparison.) For the PowerStage, I have it around 1 o'clock with the output volume of the amp sim at about 75% and it's plenty loud without clipping. However going close to 3 o'clock will start to clip. I would think 100w class D is not loud enough for a rock band with a loud drummer (if using 8 or 16 ohms), but probably fine for quieter music, especially solo.

That all being said, it feels like 170w class D at 8ohms is roughly around the equivalent of a 45w tube head. The Seymour really shines when you get it up around noon.

(EDIT: it's 85w, not 45, my bad.)

cakes wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:57 pm (EDIT: it's 85w, not 45, my bad.)

Ah yes that makes more sense, and why I wondered if it was a stereo load.

I've been using a Furman SP20AB, a half rack space 20/20/40 watt class AB poweramp into a epiphone 1X15 and 1x18' cab most of the time and it works well. I also have a Peavey Classic 60 tube power amp. It is cool but heavy. It stays home. I also have a Art SLM 100, 100 watt per ch. about 180 bridged, ok... don't want to carry a rack. They all work pretty good. I also have one of those little TC electronic BAM bass amps that is tiny and it can be made to work. I'd just love for a powerful, clean, and the size of a stompbox power amp that can go on my board. I do not want tone controls, preamp, or any other mess on it... just a master volume. And I don't want it to distort like the EH things. In like a 1590bb box. and it should cost like $100 since the TC BAM is basically that with a preamp for like $150.

I've been looking for a more robust multi-effects processor. I'm a few years late on this, but the Eventide H9 looks cool, even if over a decade old. I was thinking it would be nice to see something more modern and I came across the Poly Effects Beebo.

https://www.polyeffects.com/polyeffects/p/beebo

Looks just incredible for what it offers.

Anyway, it does some neural amp modeling, which I guess is cool. Personally, I'd rather have a sim. But, they do make what looks like a really solid dedicated neural modeler called Ample. I have to say, it looks really intriguing, despite the price. For a similar price, you could get an amp sim modeler that could also do neural. But if you hate using apps or tired of touch screens or hate the endless options and want something more analog, this little pedal looks cool as hell and sounds pretty good.

https://www.polyeffects.com/polyeffects/p/ample

cakes wrote: Wed Apr 02, 2025 5:06 pm I've been looking for a more robust multi-effects processor. I'm a few years late on this, but the Eventide H9 looks cool, even if over a decade old.

I never understood the appeal of the H9. For that much money I'd like real multi-effects (i.e. more than one at a time). Is the reverb really that much better than everything else available at the time of its release?

I don't know the difference between a "neural" amp modeler and an amp sim. That might not be a good flex on my part

ChudFusk wrote: Wed Apr 02, 2025 6:59 pm

cakes wrote: Wed Apr 02, 2025 5:06 pm I've been looking for a more robust multi-effects processor. I'm a few years late on this, but the Eventide H9 looks cool, even if over a decade old.

I never understood the appeal of the H9. For that much money I'd like real multi-effects (i.e. more than one at a time). Is the reverb really that much better than everything else available at the time of its release?

I don't know the difference between a "neural" amp modeler and an amp sim. That might not be a good flex on my part

That was my hesitation on the H9. The H90 is the modern upgrade, but way more expensive and more than I would need.

An amp sim is a software simulation of an amp, complete with tonal controls. It's like having an actual amp. To make an amp sim, you need to build it with code and algorithms. In that way, it's very similar to electrical engineering in that it requires engineering expertise to make one.

A neural model is a capture of a state of an amp. There are some EQ controls, but it's more like re-EQing, because of the snapshot would be the signal with the knobs at the positions they were in at the time of the capture. To make a neural model, all you need is a way to reamp the signal and capture software. The practical use case for this is to capture your favorite amp, put it on an amp modeler pedal or software that can use neural sound files. It doesn't take much expertise to capture an amp. Only a will and a way to reamp.

Some amp modelers can do both, some do one or the other.

For example, Amplitude is amp sim software, whereas Tonex is software that uses neural captures of real amps. Amplitude offers sims of popular amps. Tonex offers captures of popular amps with a community of people capturing and sharing their own amps. Neural modeling also includes overdrives, distortions, fuzzes, etc.

You can find pay-for and open source software for both.

I like amp sims because neural modeling is limited to the capture, and amp sims are more like real amps with more realistic tonal controls, rather than a snapshot of what an amp sounds like in a certain way

It almost doesn't matter. But with neural models comes the million different choices and I can't stand that. With amp sims, it's more akin to having a real amp. There's only so many JMT clones out there, I just find the one that works for me. My main amps are pretty much the same kinda thing on different hardware and software. So it depends on what I'm using in the moment. Not really that different than owning 3 different tube amps, really.

Some people love all the choices. I do not. I totally get being put off by it, but that's why pedals that only do one amp exist, too.

I haven't met a Class D amp that I've liked. Another portable option, though more cumbersome. The ones I've played sound flat or fake. I've not experienced this with amp sims.