Any device that will let you copy information to it, yet won't let you copy information off of it would be considered broken and useless in most cases.

$400 for a 40GB one-way harddrive, you'd have to be a moron to take that deal.

russ wrote:Any device that will let you copy information to it, yet won't let you copy information off of it would be considered broken and useless in most cases.

Actually, you can copy files to and remove them from the ipod to a computer to you heart's desire, only the song directory is hidden. This folder is easily made accessible with any of a dozen hacks out there.

Matthew Taylor wrote:

russ wrote:Any device that will let you copy information to it, yet won't let you copy information off of it would be considered broken and useless in most cases.

Actually, you can copy files to and remove them from the ipod to a computer to you heart's desire, only the song directory is hidden. This folder is easily made accessible with any of a dozen hacks out there.

The point is that it's still a 'hack' to get what you put on there, off. I realize their intentions of doing so, but until you employ the hack, the device is essentially broken.

but russ, isn't that almost akin to saying that all records are broken since you can only get music off of them but you can't put music onto them? it's just the opposite direction.

you can *delete* music off of it no problem. you just can't use it (out of the box) as a middleman for making multiple copies of songs.

russ wrote:The point is that it's still a 'hack' to get what you put on there, off. I realize their intentions of doing so, but until you employ the hack, the device is essentially broken.

Um, well not really.

You do understand that it's only the directory for the music files itself that's hidden, right? You can copy whatever you want to the drive and retrieve it without the hack. So out of the box, it's not really just a one-way hard drive. Let's say you were wanting to do you some of that there file swapping, you could simply copy files straight to the iPod, take it to your buddy's house connect it and upload to his computer. Only songs added to the library with iTunes are hidden.

If the iPod was simply an external 40 gb. pocket-firewire drive, I would agree with you since you can purchase a 40 gb. LaCie pocket-firewire drive (albeit slightly larger and heavier) for about $250 these days, but it's an mp3 player that also works as a hard drive.

oh yeah, it has breakout on it too.

Yeah, but why shouldn't you be able to pull off the songs that you put on there? You bought the thing, they're your songs. It's stupid. Obviously this is why the hacks are so popular/essential.

russ wrote:Any device that will let you copy information to it, yet won't let you copy information off of it would be considered broken and useless in most cases.

$400 for a 40GB one-way harddrive, you'd have to be a moron to take that deal.

Russ couldn't this same argument be applied to the Tivo which you voted Not Crap?
Both are overpriced harddrives but you're paying for the specialized functions they perform, and I think both are not crap but they should be cheaper and/or have greater capacity.

timmx wrote:

russ wrote:Any device that will let you copy information to it, yet won't let you copy information off of it would be considered broken and useless in most cases.

$400 for a 40GB one-way harddrive, you'd have to be a moron to take that deal.

Russ couldn't this same argument be applied to the Tivo which you voted Not Crap?

Good question. No.

I already thought of this. You don't own the television shows that TiVo records. You, most likely, own the music that you've put on your iPod. Therefore you should be able to get it off when and wherever you want to.

Now, if it were the case that when you bought a TiVo and could only hook it up to one television, and it would only work with that television, you couldn't take it to another television and play what you had recorded on the new television, then it would be a load of bull.

Get it?

I'm just in the mood for some friendly debate...

russ wrote:You don't own the television shows that TiVo records. You, most likely, own the music that you've put on your iPod."

But if you have a TiVo you most likely have cable or satellite, and one could argue you pay for those services and do own the programs to an extent, at least as much as you could be considered to own music from an online music store.

russ wrote:Now, if it were the case that when you bought a TiVo and could only hook it up to one television, and it would only work with that television, you couldn't take it to another television and play what you had recorded on the new television, then it would be a load of bull.

I disagree that bidirectional file sharing to multiple computers is the equivalent to hooking a Tivo to different TVs. The TV is just the output. You could hook the same iPod to your headphones, home stereo, and car stereo and I think thats a better point of comparison.

Your turn.

timmx wrote:I'm just in the mood for some friendly debate...

russ wrote:You don't own the television shows that TiVo records. You, most likely, own the music that you've put on your iPod."

But if you have a TiVo you most likely have cable or satellite, and one could argue you pay for those services and do own the programs to an extent, at least as much as you could be considered to own music from an online music store.

You're trying to argue that you own the TV shows that you get from your cable provider. Are you serious? If you buy a CD, do you own the 1/2" masters of the album? No.

timmx wrote:

russ wrote:Now, if it were the case that when you bought a TiVo and could only hook it up to one television, and it would only work with that television, you couldn't take it to another television and play what you had recorded on the new television, then it would be a load of bull.

I disagree that bidirectional file sharing to multiple computers is the equivalent to hooking a Tivo to different TVs. The TV is just the output. You could hook the same iPod to your headphones, home stereo, and car stereo and I think thats a better point of comparison.

Your turn.

Obviously, it's not the perfect example, but I've thought of a better one. After you record a show on your TiVo, you have the option to dump that show to your VCR, computer or DVD recorder. This is standard on all TiVos.

If you don't have the hack for your iPod, and you put a song on it using iTunes, then you can't get it back off. It's stuck on the iPod. I guess if you want to, you could plug in the headphone output into your computer and put the song on there like that, but why should you have to sacrifice t he quality of a song you own just to move it to another device? If it's just a fancy harddrive, you should be able to move it with absolutely 100% accuracy.

I guess my whole point is that Apple is selling a device with crippled software. Yet, people pay 400 bucks or whatever for these crippled devices. You should demand better.