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electrons wrote:Yes, being sucker punched usually "catches you the fuck out", whatever that means.

Sorry, I thought that was a TNA slogan.

I'll always defer to a White Sox fan concerning matter related to professional wrestling. Mea culpa.

Lemuel Gulliver wrote:Over all: Not Crap, high waffle factor.

But let's break it down:

In principle: NOT CRAP, no waffle. I live in Dallas, and started watchin the Cubs almost everytime they're on WGN since the HR race in 98. Something about it, or somethings about it draw me in: No DH, day baseball, great ballpark, great fans, Steve Stone was a riot, etc. I suppose I could just say that it beats watching my home AL team meltdown. At least the Cubs have been good the last few years. I can't wait until the day, I can throw enough cash together to just go to Chicago and take in a game.

The 2006 Cubs: CRAPOLA, no waffle. Aramis Ramirez can't hit his way out of a paperbag (if anyone knows what's up, I'd love some input as he's killing my favorite fantasy team); Derek Lee is the loanly brightspot and he's got a dangerous injury for a slugger (remember: Nomar's wrist a few years ago?), and Dusty Baker more or less fucked Prior and Wood in the '03 season by abusing them in some late inning situations where he was going to his bullpen anyway. Management had me until they tried to sell Burnitz as a desirable alternative to Moises Alou.

Regarding the whole Bartman Ball/Gonzalez bobble at shortstop problem: Did anyone notice that whole series of events--I forget who was on the mound; was it Wood?--happened over the course of about 4 pitches. It seemed to me then and even more so now that it's be the responsiblity of the manager (Dusty Fuckin' Baker) to go out there and slow things down, or alternately understood, take some momentum out of the Marlins' rally and reassure his players that they can still get outs whether or not they think a fan robbed them of an out.

Your honor, the prosecution introduces Lemuel Gulliver's foregoing post as "Exhibit 1".

I am a Cubs fan.

I root for the White Sox no less than 156 games a year. I am going tomorrow night. I think I will applaud Frank's contributions over the years and not the Big Skirt he has become. Kenny Williams is a genius.

As a long suffering Cubs fan I reject the following:
1. Cubbie (bleeding Cubbie blue or anything else related)
2. Wrigleyville (it's called Lake View)
3. Deifying the bleachers and Wrigley in general. I love it. But the Corporate-Strip Mall feel Cell is a better place to see a game in general.
4. Ron Santo (sucks always has, it's worse than listening to the Hawk)

My earliest basebal memories were cutting school with my dad (a school principal) to sit in the bleachers. Back then the bleachers were old guys who went to every home game and bet on every pitch. They were like living history not some corporate bullshit created identity.

Swarthy people were openly selling 1/4 bags of cheeba and smoking fat joints.

A walk off Dave Kingman homerun popped out of my hands one Monday afternoon.

I don't like all that lovable loser bullshit either. I recognize the Tribune company turns a huge profit without respect to outcome. They have been spending money lately which used to be my complaint. Unfortunately they are not the best choices.

Dusty sucks and always has. He doesn't know baseball and I don't think he is very smart. The last good GM was Dallas Green, who I hated at the time.

I feel like a Catholic trying to justify going to church in spite of the pedophiliac priest.

I use the Cubs to cheer myself up when the Astros have been playing dreadful, uninspired baseball(like the last couple of weeks). I can always turn on WGN to remind myself that, no matter how bad my favorite team is playing, some very devoted and winner-deserving fans in the midwest are acceptingly getting the business and I should be grateful.

So I'm torn. Cubs fans are obviously NOT CRAP. Are the Cubs NOT CRAP because they make me feel alright? Or are they CRAP regardless for such fecal animations? Advise.

I see on Sportscenter this morning that Dusty Baker pulled Carlos Zambrano in the 7th after he lost his no-hitter. Were I told that Zambrano got to the 7th with no hits and then be asked how long Dusty Baker would leave him in, I'd have guessed at least another 5 innings. And that's in a regulation 9 inning game.

So, has Dusty started to learn his lesson in regards to overuse, or was this a happy accident in the quest to keep at least one good starter in the rotation?

microzyma wrote:some very devoted and winner-deserving fans in the midwest are acceptingly getting the business.

Why exactly do Cubs fans deserve a winner?

Lemuel Gulliver wrote:I see on Sportscenter this morning that Dusty Baker pulled Carlos Zambrano in the 7th after he lost his no-hitter.

Baker pulled Zambrano after the second hit of the inning. Granted, the first hit was a ball that Jacque Jones lost in the sun, but Baker nonetheless did not pull Zambrano until after the second official hit.

Incidentally, this second hit also scored the second run. The Braves scored their first run in the first inning on four walks from Zambrano. Therefore, history wasn't exactly hanging in the balance since the fact that the game wasn't even a shutout would have tainted any no-hitter.

Lemuel Gulliver wrote:So, has Dusty started to learn his lesson in regards to overuse, or was this a happy accident in the quest to keep at least one good starter in the rotation?

Zambrano threw 124 pitches in 6.2 innings. You decide whether or not Dusty Baker has learned any lessons regarding overuse.

By the way, asking whether or not Baker has "learned his lesson" regarding overuse is nonsensical. First, the man's been in professional baseball for what, forty years? Second, although Baker's jockey whipping hasn't done them any favors, I'm not convinced that Wood and Prior wouldn't have fallen apart even if they had been handled by Florence Nightengale. And if Baker is to blame, then Larry Rothschild and the training staff have to share some of that blame as well.

I hope that some of you listened to the WGN radio broadcast of Friday's Braves-Cubs game. During the ninth inning meltdown, Ron Santo made a number of sounds that reminded me of a dying wildebeest.

Okay! Gotta go! Gotta hear Ronnie read a missive from someone who's getting married today! The bride-to-be is hoping for a Cubs' win to "start the marriage off right"!

[bowsheadputshandsinpocketssoftlykicksground]
Aw shucks.
[/bowsheadputshandsinpocketssoftlykicksground]

Lemuel Gulliver wrote: great fans

Lemuel Gulliver wrote: I can't wait until the day, I can throw enough cash together to just go to Chicago and take in a game.

The first baseball game I ever attended was the first "official" night game at Wrigley Field (the scheduled first night game was actually rained out). Since everyone in my hometown was a Cubs fan, I decided to root for their most hated enemy, which at the time was the New York Mets. The Mets were in town August 9th, 1988, and my uncle took an ecstatic young baseball fan to Wrigley. What I saw there confirmed my early predisposed hatred of the Cubs and their fans.

Besides the "Fuck the Mets" t-shirts everywhere, and the awful, annoying rendition of "Take Me out to the Ballgame," one specific incident proved all my opinions valid. Late in the game, Lenny Dykstra went back to field a double off of the center field wall. As he was retrieving it someone threw their entire beer on him. Wrigley erupted with cheers and a standing ovation at this completely idiotic act. Great "fans."

Possum Hiss wrote:The Cubs are an underachieving big-market team, but come on, they're not the Royals or the Devil Rays.

Actually, this is an argument against the Cubs. The Cubs have much more money at their disposal, yet they currently field a team that features Juan Pierre, Jacque Jones and Tony Womack.

Let me repeat: the Cubs, a big market team that will draw more than three million people this year, currently field a team that features Juan Pierre, Jacque Jones and Tony Womack.

If the White Sox pulled this shit, then I'd be tempted to drive a gas tanker into Gate 4 at 35th and Shields.

But the alleged points of comparison are the Royals and Devil Rays (or, as they like to be called these days, the "Rays"). Well, the Royals are a small market team (with, mind you, the smallest TV market) -- and they have a despicable owner who is content to suck from the MLB revenue-sharing teat. The Rays have little going for them (other than the recent ownership change and a collection of nice young talent with which you are likely unfamiliar). The Cubs, on the other hand, have the unquestioned resources to field a team every year that could compete along the lines of the Cardinals, Red Sox, Angels, Astros or Giants -- maybe even the Yankees. The Cubs are just too dumb and hold their beers-in-the-sun fan base in too much contempt to bother doing so.

Jesus, what Billy Beane, Mark Shapiro, Terry Ryan or even Doug Melvin could do with those Cubs resources.

Cubs fans, you are complete suckers. If your favorite band kept releasing shitty record after shitty record, and kept playing lame-o show after lame-o show, you would lose interest and walk away -- even if every show cost $30-40, took place in a sun-soaked setting with overpriced beer, and was televised on a WB "superstation". Maybe the world thinks of you as "loyal" fans, but the fact that you lemmings keep jumping into the stands to show your "support" for this inept concern strikes me as identifying you as nothing more than indiscriminate consumers.

I mean, you still show up and root root root for the home team.

It's a shame.

The Cubs are like a rich, lazy and stupid college classmate who never lifts a finger, skips all of his classes, buys his term papers, and skates by with D grades (if he hasn't completely failed out altogether) -- yet every Thursday, Friday and Saturday night, this guy is in the champagne room snorting high-grade blow off of the glistening bare asses of multiple hot young coeds.

Do you honestly like this guy?

wes9 wrote:Since everyone in my hometown was a Cubs fan, I decided to root for their most hated enemy, which at the time was the New York Mets. The Mets were in town August 9th, 1988, and my uncle took an ecstatic young baseball fan to Wrigley. What I saw there confirmed my early predisposed hatred of the Cubs and their fans.

By this wanting to root against what I guess what your hometown team, it sounds like you're already predisposed to hold Cubs fans in contempt. How to be objective if you're predisposed?

wes9 wrote:Besides the "Fuck the Mets" t-shirts everywhere, and the awful, annoying rendition of "Take Me out to the Ballgame," one specific incident proved all my opinions valid. Late in the game, Lenny Dykstra went back to field a double off of the center field wall. As he was retrieving it someone threw their entire beer on him. Wrigley erupted with cheers and a standing ovation at this completely idiotic act. Great "fans."

Every team has asshole fans. But are Cubs fans routinely worse than Oakland, Philly, or Boston and NY fans? I'm guessing, not by much. The brotherly-loving people of Philadelphia phoned in death threats to Mitch Williams' pregnant wife minutes after he gave up that homer to Joe Carter. I'd take a beer bath over a death threat.

The Braves have won their division in each of the last 14 seasons. Over that time span, the Cubs have outdrawn the Braves by an average of 8000 per game. Imagine supporting such mediocrity all these years. At least the Red Sox made it to some World Series. The Cubs just kept puttering on. Those are some devoted people. Those are fans.

Lemuel Gulliver wrote: Imagine supporting such mediocrity all these years. At least the Red Sox made it to some World Series. The Cubs just kept puttering on. Those are some devoted people. Those are fans.

You've obviously never been to a Cubs game and observed their "fans."