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Loretta wrote:mr giennieni

did any classical composers die when they were 27.

maybe from absinthe overdose or a blunderbuss to the head.

seriously.

List Of Composers Sorted by Age At Death

Lili Boulanger died at 24. Very sad. She was a very good composer, along the lines of Debussy and Faure. Her sister Nadia was a very well respected composition teacher who instructed many 20th century greats.

Pergolesi died at 26. He's best know for his "Stabat Mater"

I think Franz Schubert started going mentally ill around 27. He died at 31, having written over 900 works!

Glad you started this thread Geiginni!

Q. Was there any blatant pilferage of particular melodies within classical pieces? We see this so often with nasty cover versions or ripoffs, but was it a problem back in the day?

Wow. That's so helpful. Thank you very, very much.

stewie wrote:Q. Was there any blatant pilferage of particular melodies within classical pieces? We see this so often with nasty cover versions or ripoffs, but was it a problem back in the day?

I don't know about all the eras of classical music, but I do know this happened from time to time. I once worked a piece by Narvaez (sp?), theme and variations on "Guaradme las vacas". This was Renaissance era - not quite Baroque, written for the vihuela. It was a classical rendition of a popular folk tune of the time, which when translated, means - Guard the Cows.

stewie wrote:Glad you started this thread Geiginni!

Q. Was there any blatant pilferage of particular melodies within classical pieces? We see this so often with nasty cover versions or ripoffs, but was it a problem back in the day?

Yes. There are many. I don't think of it as a ripoff or "problem" since the reworkings are quite ingenius and inventive. Stravinsky is oft quoted as saying, "Good composers borrow, great ones steal". Some I can think of offhand:

-Stravinsky's Petroushka: One theme in the opening of the First Tableux is taken from a ribald folksong "She Wore a Wooden Leg", which Stavinsky knew from his childhood.

-Shoshtakovich's 8th Quartet: In the final movement he quotes a Russian prison song "Tortured by Grievous Bondage", which was a favorite of Lenin's.

-Shostakovich's 15th Symphony: quotes extensively from Rossini's "William Tell Overture" and Wagner's "Gotterdammerung".

-Debussy's Images: quotes the nursery tune "Nous n'irons plus au bois" in Rondes de Printemps, the english song "The Keel Row" in Gigues.

Given time I could think of more, not to mention all the endless quoting and sourcing of thematic material composers took from their national or outside folk musics. See: Bartok.

geiginni wrote:Stravinsky is oft quoted as saying, "Good composers borrow, great ones steal".

In this case, I propose the mysterious N. Senada as one of the absolute greatest composers ever (maybe just behind John Oswald):

POLLEX CHRISTI

"Essentially, Senada steals bits from other people's compositions and has the performer assemble them into a "house of bricks", much as some of the composers being plagarized used existing folk music to build their own works on. The difference is that not one note of Senada's composition is original."

"Pollex Christi opens with the famous first eight notes of Ludwig van Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. According to The Residents, Senada was using Beethoven's famous motif to make the statement "I didn't write these notes, nor, probably, any of the others"."

How the fuck do people know what version to buy? I love classical music, but I'd drive myself insane if I tried to wade through all the recordings...

Antero wrote:How the fuck do people know what version to buy? I love classical music, but I'd drive myself insane if I tried to wade through all the recordings...

Again, read reviews. Many of the people who review classical recordings have a considerable background and some education in the music, and will give you an objective as possible evaluation of a given recording/performer/conductor. They're not generally the fanboy yahoo types that write reviews for Pitchfork etc...

Now, of course, there's always the subjective preferences that a person may have for a certain style or approach, but hell, you gotta start somewhere, right?

http://www.goodmusicguide.com

http://www.amazon.com

http://www.classicalcdreview.com/

http://www.classicstoday.com/

This one is a fantastic place to start too:

http://www.classical.net/

Google for more....

Good luck!

Thanks for the replies to my "ripoff" question.

Now another one!

About a decade ago I really got into György Ligeti through my fascination with Kubrick's "2001: A Space Odyssey". One thing that fascinated me was the original version of "Adventures", which is mostly a vocal arrangement, consisting of people making the most random noises, hoots and whoops.

I know Ligeti is way more modern, but I'd really like to know this: how the hell does a composer write down the kinds of non-orchestral things like this? Do they just leave it up for improvisation, or do they sit and train the performers well before the actual performance?

Antero wrote:How the fuck do people know what version to buy? I love classical music, but I'd drive myself insane if I tried to wade through all the recordings...

Another side to this Antero, is that once you find a piece of music you really love, it can be really enjoyable to hear different recordings and interpretations of it. Granted, this takes music budget away from buying works that you have never heard, but you gotta compromise a little.

Some recordings I've multiple recordings of:

Debussy, Le Mer: 5 (Boulez - DGG and Columbia, Munch, Reiner, Haitink)
Stravinsky, Rite of Spring: 6 (Boulez - DGG and Nonesuch, Stravinsky, Goosens, Ozawa, Mata)
Beethoven, Late Quartets: 5 (Italiano, Vegh, Takacs, Talich, Guarneri)
Haydn, Op. 74, 76, 77 Quartets: 4 (Kodaly, Takacs, Solaman, Mosaiques)
Bartok, Concerto for Orchestra: 5 (Dorati, Boulez, Reiner, Fisher, Solti)
Shostakovich Quartets: 2 (Emerson, Borodin)
Dvorak, 9th Symphony: 4 (Kubilek - Philips and DGG, Kondrashin, Maazel [which is awful, BTW])

I could probably go on, but you get the idea...