DrAwkward wrote:

rachael wrote:What you describe sounds like depression, not anxiety. It could also be pibolar disorder if that runs in the family - do you have crazy highs too, or just crazy lows?

I haven't heard many people medicated for that who are really happy with the result. They tend to want to hang on to those really high highs, regardless of the risk of the low-down lows. But so many people that I've talked to who are treated for depression are benefitting from their medication. Just give it a try - you have to try right?

While i agree with all of this, i just want to add/clarify that worrying about losing "the highs" is something i've heard from people who most likely are clinically depressed but aren't bipolar, and it needs to be stressed that if you're NOT bipolar, and you just have the lows, that antidepressents don't eliminate any normal good moods or happiness. My then-girlfriend had just as many great moods while on zoloft/lexapro as she did off it--it's just that she didn't have the crushing lows anymore. But she wasn't bipolar, so that's the difference.

I've just heard the "all antidepressants will eliminate all my highs" thing from people who aren't even manic enough times that it's frustrating to see people not go on medication due to misinformation.

Huh?
I don't think we're in any disagreement with eachother here - are we?

Most of the people I know who are bi-polar quit taking their meds occasionally because they feel like like they lost their highs. People I know who are treated for their depression have not had this complaint.

Clarified, maybe?

rachael wrote:
Huh?
I don't think we're in any disagreement with eachother here - are we?

No, we're not. I was just adding to what you said. Apparently i babbled very ineloquently!

Wood Goblin wrote:Before you try therapy or medications, cut back on the booze (if you're a drinker), eat as healthfully as you can, and exercise frequently. And I mean exercise hard.

I went to school for psyche, and in my experience this is the way to go. Therapy is rarely effective, except maybe in the short, short term. Medication is a passive aid. As a depressive, I found that one serious episode makes subsequent ones likely and progressively worse.

The only way I could break it was to force myself into exactly the situations I was retreating from. Get social, even if you can't stand it. Or find something that requires your complete involvement in, and throw yourself at it. Hell, hire Kato to randomly attack you from the closet/coming out of the bathroom/while you are on a date (sorry- Pink Panther reference). It is hard to buck the weight that a serious depressive episode puts on you, and it only gets heavier if you let it.

If you can't get out from under it, medication will at least give you a breather. Don't allow yourself to need it, though. Unless you need it. In my case, it allowed me to completely avoid using the mechanism I needed to exercise to pull out of it naturally.

rachael wrote:I've been medicated (paxil/xanax) for severe anxiety/panic disorder for 6 years now, and I am a totally different person. Everything in my life is better, I can't tell you how glad I am that I did it.

This sounds exactly like what my wife went through. Started with a big panic attack for which she went to the hospital for, she seriously thought she was going to die, and progressively got worse to the point that she really couldn't do much on her own without freaking out about it. She tried the therapy bit, exercise and all that, and while that did help some it didn't even come close to solving the problem. As soon as she got on the Paxil, she turned it around. It was an amazingly quick change and it has made the biggest difference in her life. The girl isn't afraid to do a damn thing now, it's awesome.

It was ironic because she was really against the use of medication for these kinds of things, past experiences with family members gave her a bad taste, but when things got really bad she was willing to try it, just to get some relief.

DrAwkward wrote:And, ya know, maybe anti-depressants aren't the answer for you. That may be as well. But please, don't dismiss them just because "oh my god, if i have to take a pill it means there's really something wrong with me." The stigma attached to mental illness in this country drives me up a wall. Your brain is an organ, right? If another organ in your body were broken and a drug would fix it, you'd take it, right?

Listen to this man!

In defense of therapy: If you get with a good therapist, they'll just help you think things through; ideally to where you can sort complex thoughts and emotions out for yourself. You're not an emotional charity case for going to one. It's like how a personal trainer teaches you to do exercises so you can do them on your own.

And yeah, taking pills is scary and doesn't seem 'natural' (though as Lemuel was getting at, we don't live in a really natural world). Depending on what flavor of depression+anxiety you have though, you may only need them for a little bit to get you on your feet.

As good as it is to get help, I think it's also healthy to preserve some distaste for the whole treatment process rather than letting it become a lifestyle. That can happen too. Neurochemistry willing, the depression and treatment should be temporary. Then you can just follow the above advice of keeping busy and being happy.

itchy mcgoo wrote:It can be difficult to implement them because it is difficult to take care of yourself when you feel like shit about yourself. Also, when you're down, it is easy to justify indulgences--they feel earned. But those indulgences can really bite you in the ass. Especially when it's food and drink and lazing around.

It is hard to reach out to your people when you are down--you feel as if you have nothing to offer and will be a big drag. Most every human being I know is deeply satisfied by taking care of their friends, so shun this myth.

At a minimum mattw, commit to doing one active thing a day. Be open to seeing a doctor. And listening to some funky soul music never hurts.

This is well-put. 'Taking a day off,' or an afternoon off, or splurging on crappy food, or too much of the grape and hop just one more night a week can get to be too much too quickly. Be mindful of it. Shit, pull a Richard Simmons and keep a log so you can see how much slack you're cutting. Which suggests something in Itchy's last part: Try to think of things in small brackets, like think of things in terms of 10am-11am, and so on, and think about the choices you could make and how choosing the better ones over and over forms better habits.

As for the reaching out to people... I'm for it of course, and I think I'd fit into the category Itchy points out of willing to lend and ear, shoulder, or whatever and would assume that most other people would to. But when I did this [I found my fiancee knockin' boots with my best friend and just lost it.], I wound up alienating a lot of people I wish I hadn't by going over the same old song. Maybe I just know shitty human beings, and that's what makes this place so nice. Or maybe I'm just the opposite and find it easy to reach out and am thus a tiresome and needy basketcase. Either way, this is what makes a therapist worth considering. They are there to help you sort all the feelings and thoughts that don't add up or make sense when you put them together. 4pm on Wednesdays, you can get off your chest whatever you want.

Rodabod wrote:Avoid drugs and over-drinking (like having more than six pints or whatever). I get very miserable when I have hangovers now, and even started to get the fear sometimes. Weird.

I've suffered from depression and anxiety problems for ten years. And boy do I get the fear these days if I drink stupid amounts the night before. Hangovers are no good at all for depression.

That said, I love and to an extent need to drink alcohol fairly regularly just to shut up my furiously chattering brain and stretch out and relax. It's about finding a decent balance. one side of my family has a history of alcoholism, the other schizophrenia and clinical depression. It's a rollercoaster ride!

My advice is much the same as others. For me the most important things are eating well, exercising, finding things to do with your days, and talking to people. And don't be afraid of antidepressants either, they've done me a lot of good. Swallow any intellectual pride.

Rodabod wrote:Avoid drugs and over-drinking (like having more than six pints or whatever). I get very miserable when I have hangovers now, and even started to get the fear sometimes. Weird.

This is not weird at all, I have found that cutting back on my drinking.
I.E. Everyday, much too much and cut the whiskey out.
I found my anxiety controllable. A wake not a wave as it were.

I am curious about pills, Health insurance or better yet lack thereof
has prevented this so far.

rayj wrote:

Wood Goblin wrote:Before you try therapy or medications, cut back on the booze (if you're a drinker), eat as healthfully as you can, and exercise frequently. And I mean exercise hard.

I went to school for psyche, and in my experience this is the way to go. Therapy is rarely effective, except maybe in the short, short term. Medication is a passive aid. As a depressive, I found that one serious episode makes subsequent ones likely and progressively worse.

The only way I could break it was to force myself into exactly the situations I was retreating from. Get social, even if you can't stand it. Or find something that requires your complete involvement in, and throw yourself at it. Hell, hire Kato to randomly attack you from the closet/coming out of the bathroom/while you are on a date (sorry- Pink Panther reference). It is hard to buck the weight that a serious depressive episode puts on you, and it only gets heavier if you let it.

If you can't get out from under it, medication will at least give you a breather. Don't allow yourself to need it, though. Unless you need it. In my case, it allowed me to completely avoid using the mechanism I needed to exercise to pull out of it naturally.

Good post. I've known several people (including myself) who have taken the anti-depressant route, and I have deeply mixed feelings about them. In some cases, the person's well-being requires some sort of medication. But in all honestly, most persons I know who take anti-depressants use them as a crutch to avoid proactively improving their own lives.

Those latter people generally ate a lot of take-out or junk food, had a couple of beers every evening, and watched an eye-popping amount of television. They wasted much of their free time doing nothing--nothing creative, nothing productive, nothing active. Perhaps their level of activity and health status seemed comparable to other people's, and perhaps they were right, but that doesn't mean that their diet and fitness came close to satisfying what their bodies and minds required.

My advice would be to set really ambituous fitness goals. If you've never exercised, tell yourself that you're going to run a 10K within a year and force yourself to prepare for it. Sign up for a race, buy some shoes, and start running tomorrow. Automatically, you'd find yourself eating better, drinking less, and watching less television, simply because you couldn't achieve your goals and still partake in all of those activities. Going on long, leisurely walks by the Lake simply may be a start, but it's only a start.

If you still wake up a year from now with a feeling of deep dread, then try therapy or meds.

I can only speak from personal experience here.

I had quite serious depression a couple of years ago. I went to the doctor, who prescribed me Fluoxetine (I think this is the same as Prozac, Prozac being a brand name). I followed the course of medication for 2-3 months and noticed that I was feeling progressively better. Now, two years on, I have never felt better. There has been no recurrence of feeling the way I did before. It is simply a chemical imbalance in your brain. Don't think that it is your fault in any way, because it isn't.

I have tried to give advice to friends with depression, my advice being that anti-depressants worked for me.

Do not be apprehensive about talking to your friends about it. My friend Hazel helped me enormously.

Being outside and getting as much natural light as possible helps too.

Best,

Nico