pyxis360 wrote: But can you judge a society on what it celebrates??

Yes.

"Celebrates" is your word. I'm saying the enjoyment and titillation derived from these things arises expressly from their non-reality.

And of course it matters if it's fiction or not! When it's not fiction, it's called torture and murder. What the fuck? Are you saying does it matter to the viewer if it's fiction or not? Come on. Except for an extremely tiny, very sick minority, naturally it matters. Like I said, people enjoy being prodded and poked this way for the very reason that they know, deep down, that it's safe to do so, because it's not real.

And I didn't say these movies were good art if there's no story with the gore. Personally, I think that's lazy filmmaking, but like gore movies, that has existed for a long time too.

Eierdiebe wrote:

pyxis360 wrote: But can you judge a society on what it celebrates??

Yes.

Then find me a society that doesn't "celebrate" at least one thing someone, somewhere, would find reprehensible. That kind of pat homily judges everyone and so judges no one.

Ty,

Yes of course, I don't think anybody is saying whether ultimately if it's fiction or not matters as that's obvious. I'm merely questioning if the effects of viewing material that bears no difference to the real thing has some sort of impact beyond the grody factor.

For example, if you were shown 2 different films and one was real and one was fiction and you weren't told which one...it really wouldn't matter.

"...judges everyone and so judges no one"

Probably a different topic but I would offer that you can judge quite easily and do so all the time. The Nazi's celebrated Hitler...by judging them are we suddenly also judging ourselves?

This thread's been Hitlered!



That's a specious analogy, mostly because of its extremity. And the Nazis didn't just "celebrate" Hitler in the same way we would celebrate an aspect of a piece of pop culture.

Within the realm of pop culture, you cannot judge an entire society simply because of one thing you find objectionable in its artistic output because there will be something in the art of ANY culture that someone, somewhere, finds objectionable. I'd say that's one of the purposes of art, pushing envelopes.

And if you showed me a film released by a major studio in a large cinema that depicted a violent death, I'd feel pretty secure assuming it wasn't real. If I viewed it under other circumstances and I could tell that the creators had gone to great lengths to make it look REAL - poor lighting, mundane setting, lack of production values, etc - so that I couldn't really tell a difference, yes, I'd be disturbed. I'd question their motivations.

But none of the examples raised here meet those criteria. People are decrying the level of realism in these movies, but no one is fooled for one second into thinking those events actually happened and that's the crux.

hey that's a good point Ty I gotta go but I'll have a think.

I'm actually now begining to wonder if whether it's fiction or not does matter...

must think about it

bye bye

Ty Webb wrote:

Eierdiebe wrote:

pyxis360 wrote: But can you judge a society on what it celebrates??

Yes.

Then find me a society that doesn't "celebrate" at least one thing someone, somewhere, would find reprehensible. That kind of pat homily judges everyone and so judges no one.

My problem with our society's habitual exaltation of what is essentially cultural dreck is that our preoccupation with drivel tends to exist at the expense of our general (individual and collective) awareness and appreciation of -- not to mention our insitutional and commercial support for -- what is quite arguably not dreck.

I've only got an axe to grind because I'm an idealist.

Join the club, my man. It's a perpetual struggle for us idealists to walk the razor's edge between our ideals and snobbery.

Hell, that edge is practically this whole forum's raison d'etre.

stewie wrote:Attention horror movie marketeers! You may not have noticed, but all of your trailers now look the same!

In a world where all horror movie trailers are the same....

one man dares to challenge them all, in a deadly game of cat and mouse....

"2. Stupid, was-already-overdone-in-2003 "scratching" noise every 6 goddamn seconds."

This sound was from the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre made in 1975. It would seem fitting to use it in this trailer no?

I'm sure this movie will suck none-the-less.