I think 2x12s are way punchier than 4x12s. I recorded my Mark IV through a Mesa 2x12 then through a M<arshall 4x12, and the Mesa had a little less low end but plenty more mid-punch. Let's not forget that the construction of the cabinet means a lot as well. I read Mesa cabs are created with thicker wood frames than Marshalls, which has a lot to do with their sound.

I use a Mesa 2x12 for recording but a Marshall 4x12 for playing live. I find the 2x12 compresses the sound a bit better and is a lot more comfortable to use in the studio, but a 4x12 in a live setting gives a bit more warmth and bigger, badder volume.

I don't think this helps at all.

LowYaw wrote:i'm choosing between two cabs, 2x12 and 4x12, loaded with the same speakers (Marsh 1922 vs 1960), and apart from money reasons, my main concern is:

Is there anything i'll be missing (tonewise) going into the studio with a 2x12 cab instead of a 4x12? I'd hate to save 300-400 bucks and end up with a rig that will suck for recording..

How many watts is your amp? 50 watts would go about right with a 2X12. ?? I used a Marshall '1922 ' 2X12 for bass, and still had some low end .

I am officially sick and tired of the phrase

"That's what the PA is for."

This is a saying most often said by old men, Christian- and/or soft-rock enthusiasts, and sound guys.

If you're playing metal, you should be loud, or you'll be boring. If you're concerned about sounding good, you should be concerned about how you sound without any PA reinforcement, or you'll be inconsistent. PA reinforcement is _reinforcement_ for the way your band sounds. Balance yourselves, and it'll be less easy* for a sound guy to fuck it up.

As for recording, it really doesn't matter toooo terribly much. Your cabinet will most likely be mic'ed closely anyway. But you said it'd need to be a gigging rig too. Which means you need it loud, because you play something like metal, right? Which means a 2x12 isn't going to cut it. You could set it up on a chair so it points more towards your crotch instead of your ankles, but its still not going to push the air a 4x12 will. I guess it really depends on how loud your drummer plays.

Seriously, any inconvenience you experience from moving around a 4x12 is insignificant. It's really not that bad. Keeps your fat ass in shape, if anything else. If you can't lift your 4x12 onto a stage by yourself, you need to cut back on the smoking and get out once in a while.

All that being said, I'd look into Avatar Cabs. They have some quality shit for cheap, and their website is rather informative about how their cabinets/speaker combos sound. Check it.

*I didn't want to say "hard" cause sound guys can fuck up any good thing.

wiggins wrote:If you're playing metal, you should be loud, or you'll be boring. If you're concerned about sounding good, you should be concerned about how you sound without any PA reinforcement, or you'll be inconsistent. PA reinforcement is _reinforcement_ for the way your band sounds. Balance yourselves, and it'll be less easy* for a sound guy to fuck it up.

So drowning out everyone in your band because you can't get your amp to saturate is balanced?! Metal doesn't have to be 'loud or it's boring', you just need to be able to hear the band properly, as with everything else really. Unless we're talking huge venues I'd take a well setup metal band using smaller cabs and amps that I could actually listen to, over some stupidly loud band who just bought the biggest gear they could because 'its metal' and I can't hear a fucking thing except for the drums and guitars competing to drown everything else out.
As long as your happy with your sound and you can hear yourself when playing, why does it have to deafen everyone? Let the PA give the level to the audience.

Noodles wrote:

wiggins wrote:If you're playing metal, you should be loud, or you'll be boring. If you're concerned about sounding good, you should be concerned about how you sound without any PA reinforcement, or you'll be inconsistent. PA reinforcement is _reinforcement_ for the way your band sounds. Balance yourselves, and it'll be less easy* for a sound guy to fuck it up.

So drowning out everyone in your band because you can't get your amp to saturate is balanced?! Metal doesn't have to be 'loud or it's boring', you just need to be able to hear the band properly, as with everything else really. Unless we're talking huge venues I'd take a well setup metal band using smaller cabs and amps that I could actually listen to, over some stupidly loud band who just bought the biggest gear they could because 'its metal' and I can't hear a fucking thing except for the drums and guitars competing to drown everything else out.
As long as your happy with your sound and you can hear yourself when playing, why does it have to deafen everyone? Let the PA give the level to the audience.

Wiggins, earlier, when you weren't listening, wrote:Balance yourselves...

Sorry old man, I wouldn't trust sound men in clubs (in America, at least - I don't know about you and your English clubs) any further than I can throw them, and most of them are old and fat, and I'm pretty weak with my shot-put, despite all the 4x12 cabs I've been hauling around when a 1x12 would have worked.

And sorry, if Slayer played through Line 6 Spyder 2x12 they would be boring.

Empirical fact.

Unless they were playing through 20 Line 6 Spyder 2x12's.

Sikth play through Line 6 Spyders. They're pretty metal.
It depends on the venue size but a lot of the clubs round here are too small to warrant a 4x12 and the rest of it. You can always add another 2 if needs be. I know you said balance yourselves, but if it's just too damn loud, you can't do that- if your just putting way too much energy into the space it's never going to sound right, you'll just be finding all the room modes and general resonances around the place. One of the places I worked in was a typical pokey english pub/club type place, the guys running straight into the PA were always fine, the ones using 4x12's etc. were just LOUD to the point where the glasses fell off the shelf behind the bar, but you couldn't hear anything they were playing properly. Course, thats not such a bad thing in many cases, but that's another debate.
Slayer wouldn't be boring playing through a 2x12, they just wouldn't be as loud. They play stadiums though, it's a different thing intit.

Yeah, SikTh look pretty metal, alright.

However, I much prefer metal of the true variety.

Sikth are alright, they'd be much better if they sacked the vocalists and stopped trying to be commercially viable. Pin is a kick ass guitarist. A bit fiddly to listen to though.