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Vinyl question - final format decision time
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:35 am
by M_a_x_Archive
That wasn't what was suggested. 10 minutes per side on 33 1/3, and since it's only 10 minutes you can place them 'normally' (as if you had 18 minutes of music) and only put them on the first 50% of the record, thus ensuring you wouldn't get anything ugly happening in the shorter grooves.
Vinyl question - final format decision time
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:06 pm
by InToronto_Archive
I have some Squarepusher vinyl that sounds WAY more interesting when you play it at 33 1/3rd. And a DJ friend of mine creates some of her most interesting mixes by doing just that sort of thing.
Vinyl question - final format decision time
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:50 pm
by Eric K_Archive
M_a_x wrote:Ever wonder why outside diameter cuts on a record sound clearer and cleaner than inside ones? Unfortunately it’s a fact. Why? The answer is geometry, curvature again. One turntable revolution at 33 1/3 rpm on an LP takes 1.8 seconds. That 1.8 seconds is spread over a circumference of 36 inches on the outside of the record. At the minimum allowable inside diameter that same 1.8 second revolution would only cover 14.9 inches. You can see from this, that a gentle wiggle spread over 36 inches would get quite ‘scrunched’ over 14.9 inches. A jagged groove at 36 inches would get really scrunched at 14.9 inches (remember the rapids). Excessive treble can even cause the cutting stylus to accelerate so fast that its back edge wipes out what the front edge just cut! It’s unfortunate, but treble rolls off, and distortion goes up as you approach the center of the record. It is quite gradual, but if you compare the source recording to the disc, this actually starts to become noticeable after the second cut or so. Any attempt to compensate for this by boosting the treble, only makes the problem worse (greater curvature remember).
Interesting. Thanks for posting that.
Vinyl question - final format decision time
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:37 pm
by h8 m0dems_Archive
fiery jack wrote:here's a hint, if you're instrumental-only.
don't print the approved speed on the label.
whilst this will confuse the fuck out of your listeners, it may, if you're lucky, give them double the fun as they figure out what setting they prefer. I had a UI EP that I thought was a pretty neat "slow-core"-ish grinder; all of a sudden hey presto! it turns out it was a pretty tight "math-rock" 45 speed all the while. It was like getting 2 records for the price of 1.
This also happened with Slint's "Glenn" - got a hold of it on a live tape in about 1992, allegedly sourced direct from Mr Pajo. Whoever had recorded it had done so at 33rpm. I loved it. Then, some years later, it gets released on CD and whaddya know...
Sonic youth do this on SY1 as well. For ages I thought it was meant to be played at 33 and it was this awesome sludgy sounding instrumental. Then my friend was playing his cd version and it was all like whacky and fast. I still can't listen to that record at normal speed. It's boring and shit that way.
Vinyl question - final format decision time
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:54 pm
by JDanger_Archive
h8 m0dems wrote:fiery jack wrote:here's a hint, if you're instrumental-only.
don't print the approved speed on the label.
whilst this will confuse the fuck out of your listeners, it may, if you're lucky, give them double the fun as they figure out what setting they prefer. I had a UI EP that I thought was a pretty neat "slow-core"-ish grinder; all of a sudden hey presto! it turns out it was a pretty tight "math-rock" 45 speed all the while. It was like getting 2 records for the price of 1.
This also happened with Slint's "Glenn" - got a hold of it on a live tape in about 1992, allegedly sourced direct from Mr Pajo. Whoever had recorded it had done so at 33rpm. I loved it. Then, some years later, it gets released on CD and whaddya know...
Sonic youth do this on SY1 as well. For ages I thought it was meant to be played at 33 and it was this awesome sludgy sounding instrumental. Then my friend was playing his cd version and it was all like whacky and fast. I still can't listen to that record at normal speed. It's boring and shit that way.
This is funny but it can also be pretty embarrasing. I had this experience with an
Early Humans record recently. I played at one speed and it sounded awesome, I was all, "This is unlike any music I've ever heard!" Then I realized it was the wrong speed. I thought for sure I'd be able to catch something like that immediately, but if you've never heard the band before you might just think it's creative engineering or the use of non-traditional tones.
Vinyl question - final format decision time
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:41 pm
by Steve V_Archive
45rpm 12". To quote my South African amigo, "shit's all spinning stone cold quick."
Vinyl question - final format decision time
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:24 pm
by kerble_Archive
Eric K. wrote:Is the sound quality really higher "closer to the edge" of a record?
Yes.
the
Close to the Edge record has a really high sound quality.
Vinyl question - final format decision time
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:31 pm
by tmidgett_Archive
45rpm.
Vinyl question - final format decision time
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:28 pm
by Braden_Archive
M_a_x wrote:Ever wonder why outside diameter cuts on a record sound clearer and cleaner than inside ones? Unfortunately it’s a fact. Why? The answer is geometry, curvature again. One turntable revolution at 33 1/3 rpm on an LP takes 1.8 seconds. That 1.8 seconds is spread over a circumference of 36 inches on the outside of the record. At the minimum allowable inside diameter that same 1.8 second revolution would only cover 14.9 inches. You can see from this, that a gentle wiggle spread over 36 inches would get quite ‘scrunched’ over 14.9 inches. A jagged groove at 36 inches would get really scrunched at 14.9 inches (remember the rapids). Excessive treble can even cause the cutting stylus to accelerate so fast that its back edge wipes out what the front edge just cut! It’s unfortunate, but treble rolls off, and distortion goes up as you approach the center of the record. It is quite gradual, but if you compare the source recording to the disc, this actually starts to become noticeable after the second cut or so. Any attempt to compensate for this by boosting the treble, only makes the problem worse (greater curvature remember).
I thought it was because the tonearm has a single pivot and therefore the stylus cannot perfectly track all areas of the record. The needle is going to ride more of the outer groove of the record closer to the label than the outer edge. Your quote does make sense to an extent but I don't think it's the entire story.
Vinyl question - final format decision time
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:26 pm
by madlee_Archive
re: outside vs. inside, an easy way to think about it is to compare it to audio tape. faster speeds = better recording. the needle travels a greater distance per revolution on the outer edge.
re: the curve of a record, that's why you have the anti skate mechanism, because the record's curve wants to make the needle / arm pivot inwards.
definitely opt for the 180g vinyl. makes the records flatter.
