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tommydski wrote:Scientology is a cult.
The Jewish people are a race.

It's really not comparable. Not letting a egotistical little scrunt who is certifiably out of his mind appear in a film is not the same as the persecution and attempted mass execution of an entire race of people. Also, I think it's a bit shitty to say that the German people at large were anti-semitic when it was actually a controlling minority.

Scientology is not a religion or a race. It's a horrible joke of an experiment gone wrong. It exists just to make a handful of genuine crazies even richer than they already are, quite often through the suffering and intimidation of other people. Even calling it a cult is sort of insulting, since it is really nothing more an elaborate con perpetrated on the weak and disenchanted.

I'm talking about the demonization of any group you don't agree with. It doesn't have to be based solely on race.

I used the Jews as an example. The Nazis scapegoated many groups, such as, for example, Gypsies, Freemasons and Communists. It wasn't all based on race, although they did turn around and blame the Jews for most of the ideologies they opposed.

The Nazis were a horrible chapter in Germany's history, but to say that there is not an undercurrent in Germany's current persecution of Scientology that has echoes in Germany's past is just not true.

Prosecute Scientology for it's real wrongs, do not persecute it, or especially individual people for membership in it.

If you also look into it, there are still blood laws in effect in Germany regarding whether you can become a citizen there.

I believe that for the German government to get involved in this is clearly wrong. The casting decision is not their purview, but up to the movie's director and casting department, and others involved with the production, such as the Stauffenberg family.

If the Stauffenbergs have objections to the casting of Cruise to represent their most famous relative--for whatever reason--then I believe their wishes should be honored. The actor who plays Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg will for a long time be connected to the memory of their ancestor. If they object in any way to Cruise's character, his activism or any other personal eccentricities, they should definitely have the creative right to veto the studio's casting decision. I don't know what kind of contract they signed with the studio but I certainly hope that provision was in there.

Colonel Panic wrote:I believe that for the German government to get involved in this is clearly wrong. The casting decision is not their purview, but up to the movie's director and casting department, and others involved with the production, such as the Stauffenberg family.

If the Stauffenbergs have objections to the casting of Cruise to represent their most famous relative--for whatever reason--then I believe their wishes should be honored. The actor who plays Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg will for a long time be connected to the memory of their ancestor. If they object in any way to Cruise's character, his activism or any other personal eccentricities, they should definitely have the creative right to veto the studio's casting decision. I don't know what kind of contract they signed with the studio but I certainly hope that provision was in there.

I agree with this whole statement 100%.

Governments should not be in the business of deciding which religions are legitimate. Nor should they be in the business of deciding who is allowed artistic expression and who is not.

I believe Germany also outlaws various kinds of Nazi and neo-Nazi displays, publications, and perhaps even meetings. (Not sure about the last one). I'll take a backseat to no one in despising Nazi's, and I understand that Germany has a unique history here...but it's a serious mistake because it reinforces peoples abstract notion that censorship or religious repression can be a good thing depending on who is in power and who is not.

The better route is to use free speech to cure any problems that result from free speech.

And being related to a person being depicted should confer no special powers. To put this in a different context, should the Reagan family have veto power over how the late President is depicted?

I didn't think so...

Mark Hansen wrote:The Nazis were a horrible chapter in Germany's history, but to say that there is not an undercurrent in Germany's current persecution of Scientology that has echoes in Germany's past is just not true.

C'mon now, is the German government really persecuting Scientology?

That sounds preposterous.

I agree that government involvement here is a step in the wrong direction..

BUT, I do find pleasure in this international display of disdain for the farce that is Scientology.

DazeyDiver wrote:BUT, I do find pleasure in this international display of disdain for the farce that is Scientology.

Yes, not to mention the display of disdain for the farce that is Tom Cruise.

galanter wrote:I believe Germany also outlaws various kinds of Nazi and neo-Nazi displays, publications, and perhaps even meetings. (Not sure about the last one). I'll take a backseat to no one in despising Nazi's, and I understand that Germany has a unique history here...but it's a serious mistake because it reinforces peoples abstract notion that censorship or religious repression can be a good thing depending on who is in power and who is not.

Yes. It's called "Volksverhetzung" or "inciting the people using hate propaganda".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung

Eating Noddemix wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:The Nazis were a horrible chapter in Germany's history, but to say that there is not an undercurrent in Germany's current persecution of Scientology that has echoes in Germany's past is just not true.

C'mon now, is the German government really persecuting Scientology?

That sounds preposterous.

No it's not.

I've read elsewhere that Scientologists have been purged from government jobs, for example. I don't remember the source, so I can't quote it. In general, the German government has been very openly hostile to Scientologists.

Scientologists are the new Jews?