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Enough of this graphical discussion. This war should be over. It never should have been brought to Iraq in the first place.

I don't want constant war. I don't care how statistics are spun. I want the war ended now.

Regardless of my opinion on the war, I'm glad to see that deaths due to violence have decreased. The closer this number gets to 0 the better, I say. In this the surge has had some success.

However, as mentioned before this surge was intended to decrease violence to expedite a political solution to this country. I don't think it's feasible to expect this process to be fast, and considering the political 'issues' being dealt with are based on 2000+ years religious divide it's straight up ignorant to think U.S. military intervention can change that.

The supposed goals of the war are fundamentally flawed, and the invasion was not a strategic success.

And then there's the little problem of Turkey ready to cross the border and take on the Kurds. Whack-a-mole all over again.

galanter wrote:I'm still avoiding big political debates,
Let the nay saying begin...

(thunderous guitar riff intro)

hey hey pretty pretty boy
pretty pretty boy
onward to I-R-A-N

hey hey pretty pretty boy
pretty pretty boy
onward to I-R-A-N

I-R-A-N
I-R-A-N
I-R-A-N
I-R-A-N

(thunderous guitar riff outro)

The violence is now down to the levels where it was deemed so bad that we needed "the surge" in the first place.

Huzzah.

madlee wrote:Ramping up the troop levels to over 500,000 is the only way to possibly guarantee any level of success.

it's coming.

Galanter, do you think the shitstorm that is about to explode between Turkey and Kurdistan was accelerated by the US invasion of Iraq?

How beneficial to US interests will it be for Turkey to further destabilize Iraq as a result of said shitstorm?

How beneficial will it be for US interests if the shitstorm brings Turkey diplomatically closer to Iran?

El Protoolio wrote:The violence is now down to the levels where it was deemed so bad that we needed "the surge" in the first place.

Huzzah.

Simply not true. The violence is now down to the levels before Al Qaeda in Iraq bombed the mosque and while the Shiites were practicing some degree of restraint. The surge was deemed necessary when the Baghdad security plan capped the violence but didn't reverse it. Check the charts. The violence is or nearly is down to pre-2006 levels.

Also in the realm of getting facts straight (rather than tooth and nail debate) the surge was only partially about adding troops. It was also about moving troops. But most of all it was about introducing a completely new paradigm in fighting the insurgency. The US and others are using new strategies and tactics that Gen. Petraeus brings with him as a world class expert in the field. (Both meanings intentional).

Rick Reuben wrote:'the current circumstances'???? Is that what we're calling the occupation now? 'the current circumstances'??

yes, legitimate invasion or no, that's what we have to call it.