Angry Dragon wrote:It (9-11) happened, so what.

When I read this originally, I was very angry.

So What?

SO WHAT?

Did you know anyone that died in the crashes/catastrophes?

Did you know anyone in New York City who lived through it?

Isn't it bad enough that forces in this country have already commodified the country's heartsickness, anger and fear into political cash-in?

Do you not realize that it is the heart of the morass of issues regarding the direction of our country, and by extension, our way of life?

IF THERE WAS EVER A TIMELY TOPIC TO NOT TREAT

"LIGHTHEARTED"

OR

"INDIE COOL"

OR

"SLACKER-WHATEVER-THE-FUCK"

THIS IS THE TOPIC, AND EVERYTHING IN IT'S ORBIT.


I apologize to everyone for the shouting, but I've been pissed off even more by the removal of the original post.

Since I no longer have access to the original post, I'll just quote this:

Redline wrote:You are a turd.

I could give a shit whether you are a turd or not. You could be a very nice person, and I hope so.

But this was a very shitty shitty way to present a shit attitude on a sensitive topic.

The terrorist act of 9/11 was horrible. I won't even diminish the tragedy of that by qualifying it with the humorous "crap or not" labelling.

TALKING ABOUT 9/11 IS NOT CRAP.
UNLESS IT IS THIS THREAD WHICH IS TOTAL CRAP.

Angry_Dragon wrote:Believe it or not, I actually have sympathy for the victims and for people who lost loved ones due to this act. I'm not that much of a bastard. I mean, come on.

Maybe you missed this part, Brad

No, I didn't miss the statement that you "actually" have sympathy. However, it did little to take the sting out of your "It happened, so what" and "move on" comments, which were just awful.

Nor did I miss the fact that you edited this post, which is pretty telling.

The beautiful Mr. Chimp pretty much said what needed to be said. Maybe we can leave it at that.

Mr. Chimp wrote:

Angry Dragon wrote:It (9-11) happened, so what.

When I read this originally, I was very angry.

So What?

SO WHAT?

Did you know anyone that died in the crashes/catastrophes?

Did you know anyone in New York City who lived through it?

I drove to work as the planes were slamming into the WTC, knowing more or less what was going on the whole way in. That morning, I sat in my office and watched the smoke floating over the Potomac as the Pentagon burned a mile or two away, the whole time hearing rumors of more bombs at the Capitol and the State Department.

That evening I drove home over deserted highways, through the clouds of smoke, smelling the jet fuel in the air, past the armored personnel carriers on every corner, past the armed guards in front of every building. Downtown DC, but no people on the street, just soldiers.

I went home to my neighborhood that was strangely alive and watched and waited and was sick in my heart. I know I wont get past that day any time soon, but I also know that the revolting use of it to militarize our society, as a pretense to invade other countries and to push civil liberties into a secret locked closet here at home, has made me even sicker in my heart than I was on that day.

With all that in mind, I'm always ready to talk about what it means. It's the whole reason why this election is so important. Everything changed that day, and it's still changing. Politicians are still running from it, still acting out of fear, the fear that's still spilling out of so many of us. We need to show resolve. We need to stop them.

Yeah, why did you make this thread in the first place? Get a fucking life, man.

endofanera wrote:

We need to stop them.

The politicians or the terrorists?

i wouldn't be too hard on angry dragon. Of course it was a shitty thing to say, but i don't think he really doesn't care about those people. Sure it was horrible. But i think the reason that some ppl say "get over it" or something is because for 3 yrs., there has not been one day when we don't hear something about 9/11. And usually it's not in a "let's get to the bottom of this and solve these problems" kind of way. Its in a panicky, paranoid, suffocating sort of way. Everyone is so deadly serious about it. So that's why i can understand people saying "fuck it, stop harping on it" because you have to free yourself of it at some point. It's not that you have no respect for the victims. And really, if anyone thinks the terrorists hate our freedom, you should probably rethink that. WHo would hate freedom? Also, put yourself in the shoes of someone in palestine. Think of how fucking hopeless their existances are, they don't stand a chance against us. I'm not saying terrorism is justified, i'm just saying it never hurt to think about why your enemy hates you.

And really, if anyone thinks the terrorists hate our freedom, you should probably rethink that. WHo would hate freedom?

jesus christ

have you heard of wwII? are you familiar with the country of china? do you know anything about radical islamic fundamentalism?

there is a long, storied history of people hating freedom

things don't have to be reasonable to you and me to happen. there's not always a logical reason for people's beliefs and actions.

and radical islamic fundamentalists hate us--all of us--for who we are and for what we, with our core beliefs in freedom and self-determination, represent

it's not about politics or avenging oppression, no matter what bin laden has said. it's about destroying our culture in the name of 'islam' (what they believe islam to be) and celebrating death.

there's a book called _terror and liberalism_, by a guy named paul berman, that you should read

it's not a long book, but he crystallizes most of the cogent thought about terrorism beautifully. it is more perceptive about this phenomenon than anything else i have read, and it will become a touchstone text on the subject.

Ok ok, I get it. Yes I am familiar with china, a country whose leaders are not especially fond of the freedom of their own people. Why? Because they have something to gain from it. Their people being free would infringe on their power. Is this situation comparable to our terrorist problem? I don't see how it is, but maybe I'm wrong. And perhaps i should have been more clear. I just don't exactly buy this whole scenario. Why would a group of people, not a country, just a few people, devote their lives and put in so much work to destroy a country just because it's free? I mean, say America is totally innocent and is the beacon of freedom that some people like to think. What would they gain by waging war on a country like that? Nothing. But again, it really could be that I don't understand and they're more fucked up than i thought. Anyway, I'll check out the book you recommended.

i just noticed tmidget's post number.








!SPOOKY!

sorry to be so harsh

you are not alone in thinking there have to be reasonable reasons for this shit

i just don't think there are. i think we're reading far too much into these actions in thinking there is, and we're taking terrorists at their word by thinking that there is.

i think all the evidence points towards this strain of terrorism as another manifestation of the totalitarian impulse and a celebration of death. which we can all understand, in its western forms, as fully destructive phenomena.

uh...911 posts? uh....