Also, few other religions in this day and age have a price structure at their core. Weird beliefs, irrational demands, yes, in spades; a faith-wide price list, not so much.

frelnamp wrote:If scientology managed to insinuate itself into various positions of power in american society to such a degree that they could seriously fuck with and harass you if you talked negatively about them, would you still have the strength of your convictions to tell them to go fuck themselves or would you crumble before their mind controlling mightiness.

This is a political question and I suppose you could apply it to the Oil industry too. They've managed to get two puppets into power, Bush 1 & Bush 2 and, generally speaking, the American people have just accepted their mind controlling mightiness.

So, would having a Scientologist government be any different?

Josef K wrote:

frelnamp wrote:If scientology managed to insinuate itself into various positions of power in american society to such a degree that they could seriously fuck with and harass you if you talked negatively about them, would you still have the strength of your convictions to tell them to go fuck themselves or would you crumble before their mind controlling mightiness.

This is a political question and I suppose you could apply it to the Oil industry too. They've managed to get two puppets into power, Bush 1 & Bush 2 and, generally speaking, the American people have just accepted their mind controlling mightiness.

So, would having a Scientologist government be any different?

For the record I'm not a member of this group.

I admit I asked a pretty simplistic question and I didn't answer it for myself.

If scientology got to the level of power I hypothesized I would be willing to fight against it until I or they discovered what my crumbling point was. Part of me would be curious to know what that was and part of me wouldn't want to know.

The insidious part of it is that I think I understand the mechanics of scientology well enough to see where the appeal lies.

They have fucked with people enough in the past that it was generally considered not a very good idea to get on their bad side. Now the american media has gradually grown comfortable with the idea that they can potentially ridicule scientology with not too much serious repercussion. So more individual people are willing to do it as well.

My original question could indeed be applied to the oil industry (though I think it's a bad analogy) or any other powerful intimidating organized group of people. They're complicated situations and too easy to generalize about. But if you have to simplify it in your mind just to deal with it somehow, I guess that's preferable to being paralyzed by confusion.

I wouldn't align myself with scientology or christianity but I don't feel much kinship with their enemies (psychiatry, atheism, "occultism") either.

fancyjamtime wrote:

emmanuelle cunt wrote:It is funny how everyone goes after Scientology like it is any less rational than Christianity. When someone donates money to Christian church/organization/whatever it is fine with everyone, but doing the same for Scientology obviously means someone was brainwashed and deserves to be laugh at.

It is more rational to be sceptical of Scientology because it's so much more transparently seedy. Also, if you can't at least concede that many/most Christians are good hearted people who are genuinely trying to help people then you need to get out more.

If I win the lotto I'm tithing to the Raelians 'cause I'm getting fucking tired of not having a clone already.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,404175,00.html

holy shit, i had completely forgotten about the raelians!

frelnamp wrote:

Josef K wrote:

frelnamp wrote:If scientology managed to insinuate itself into various positions of power in american society to such a degree that they could seriously fuck with and harass you if you talked negatively about them, would you still have the strength of your convictions to tell them to go fuck themselves or would you crumble before their mind controlling mightiness.

This is a political question and I suppose you could apply it to the Oil industry too. They've managed to get two puppets into power, Bush 1 & Bush 2 and, generally speaking, the American people have just accepted their mind controlling mightiness.

So, would having a Scientologist government be any different?

For the record I'm not a member of this group.

I admit I asked a pretty simplistic question and I didn't answer it for myself.

If scientology got to the level of power I hypothesized I would be willing to fight against it until I or they discovered what my crumbling point was. Part of me would be curious to know what that was and part of me wouldn't want to know.

The insidious part of it is that I think I understand the mechanics of scientology well enough to see where the appeal lies.

They have fucked with people enough in the past that it was generally considered not a very good idea to get on their bad side. Now the american media has gradually grown comfortable with the idea that they can potentially ridicule scientology with not too much serious repercussion. So more individual people are willing to do it as well.

My original question could indeed be applied to the oil industry (though I think it's a bad analogy) or any other powerful intimidating organized group of people. They're complicated situations and too easy to generalize about. But if you have to simplify it in your mind just to deal with it somehow, I guess that's preferable to being paralyzed by confusion.

I wouldn't align myself with scientology or christianity but I don't feel much kinship with their enemies (psychiatry, atheism, "occultism") either.

You think I simplified your dumbass question because I was confused by it? heh heh heh.... and here I thought I was adding to the discussion.

The oil industry analogy is a fucking perfect analogy because it illustrates exaclty in real life what you are asking in your question.

Ok. so you don't want a discussion on this, you just want aswers, fine.

If scientologists get into postions of power (assuming you mean government & there are probably some in there already) then the people will do fuck all about it and just accept whatever happens. Like they always do.

emmanuelle cunt wrote:Yet no one laughs at people who go to see Die Hard 4 instead of visiting an art gallery.

Alas not true. I was mocked roundly by friends and associates for suggesting viewing said film.

And scientology is seedy - no doubt about it - but seedier than the kiddy fiddlin' catterlik church?

not sure about that.

And are they against occultism? I thought hubbard was all inspired by Crowleyesque techniques and what have you (Crowley apparently thought he was a tit)


Or did he then say 'they bad' so people wouldn't notice?

Bart Simpson 11 millions - how sad.
I met her once.

should've punched her in the fizzog.

Josef K wrote:You think I simplified your dumbass question because I was confused by it? heh heh heh.... and here I thought I was adding to the discussion.

I already stated that I felt my original question was too simplistic. The part you have a problem with: "if you have to simplify it in your mind just to deal with it somehow, I guess that's preferable to being paralyzed by confusion" could look like an insult depending on how the "you" part is read.

Josef K wrote:The oil industry analogy is a fucking perfect analogy because it illustrates exaclty in real life what you are asking in your question.

Most people can take or leave scientology and are not dependent on it. A lot of people feel dependent on the oil industry because they need it to fuel their vehicles. Scientology and the oil industry just seem like two different beasts with two distinct types of power. I could be wrong though, and you might have a great analogy. I won't find out if you start hyperventilating and pass out.

Josef K wrote:Ok. so you don't want a discussion on this, you just want aswers, fine.

That's just damn snippy of you. React however you want. I never said you couldn't. I tried to respond honestly to your response and wound up with a bitchy old fishwife.

Josef K wrote:If scientologists get into postions of power (assuming you mean government & there are probably some in there already) then the people will do fuck all about it and just accept whatever happens. Like they always do.

Just like you from the sound of it. There's lots of different "the people" who react in all kinds of different ways with varying results.

Even if you don't care for the trappings of Christianity or buy the whole miracles/resurrection thing, for the most part the philosophy Christ espoused in the New Testament was a good and positive one and they aren't bad words to live buy -- compassion, forgiveness, do unto others as they would do unto you, that kinda stuff.

Somehow, I don't see a whole lot in Xenu's story that offers much to those who haven't bought the bullshit.

Also, many (probably most) Christian churches perform charitable work for the community, and at very least will let you worship without forking over a payment (maybe they'll give you the fish-eye of you don't drop something in the plate, but they won't kick you out). If Scientology gives anything to anybody or will give you a "reading" for free, it's news to me.

frelnamp wrote:I already stated that I felt my original question was too simplistic. The part you have a problem with: "if you have to simplify it in your mind just to deal with it somehow, I guess that's preferable to being paralyzed by confusion" could look like an insult depending on how the "you" part is read.

Since you were responding to my post I'm sure that's how you meant it to be received and rather than partipating in a discussion you'd rather throw insults around, I see there are a few more in the rest of your shitty post.

Ok douchebag. Carry on discussing this on your own.

[/quote]

Since you were responding to my post I'm sure that's how you meant it to be received and rather than partipating in a discussion you'd rather throw insults around, I see there are a few more in the rest of your shitty post.

Ok douchebag. Carry on discussing this on your own.[/quote]

A scientologist would tell you that somewhere in your past you were traumatized by an insult or a perceived insult accompanied by pain/physical discomfort and now your reactive mind continues to illogically connect these experiences, resulting in further unnecessary perceived insult traumas. You need to re-experience that initial trauma over and over again until it becomes a neutral memory with no emotional charge. Then you can proceed ahead in life without sabotaging yourself repeatedly with these traumatic perceived-insult-trauma-reactions that have always prevented you from achieving your true goals (expressing yourself clearly).