There just aren't enough venues and it's competitive to get booked. There aren't too many bands.

Kayte R. wrote:There just aren't enough venues and it's competitive to get booked. There aren't too many bands.

If there aren't enough venues, then why are so many people seeing so many bad bands, causing this "too many bands" argument to develop?

Every band means something to the people in them. I may not enjoy their music so much but they do, and that's alright. Everyone has a right to do what they want and present their art in whatever way they want.

I have friends who are in terrible bands, I'm not about to tell them they shouldn't be having a good time playing in them. I'll go see them and clap because I just like the idea of people writing and playing and performing rock music. It's the greatest thing ever.

I will only heckle a band in the most severe situations, either they are or have been complete assholes to me personally or suck so completely and totally I can't stop myself. Those bands are universally the types who don't really like music anyway and are trying to play a particular style because they think it's what they are supposed to do, so it's not so mean to heckle them. The songs they are playing are not really their heart and soul, you know? They don't mean shit to them, so fuck it, tell them to fuck off.

Heckling a band you aren't enjoying even though they obviously love the music they are presenting and are excited about sharing it?
That's just about the most asshole dickhead move I can imagine.
To make someone feel ashamed for wanting to share their art with people, I don't know, dosen't make me feel like a big shot.

Yell at the cubby bear alterna-hit cover band, sure. Leave the real people just trying to have fun playing their music alone. It won't kill you to be polite for 45 minutes. Just grab a beer, go out and smoke and they'll be done before you know it.

Germ War wrote:

that damned fly wrote:no, but i think we should stop tolerating mediocrity, openly boo, heckle, and trash.

I watched "We Jam Econo" last night. There's a part where the Minutemen are getting spit on, getting cords unplugged, and they continued to play. Are you convinced that bands who believe in what they are doing would simply quit because of this? I don't.

It really depends on how much they believe in what they're doing and how many are just playing in bands for a laugh, or because it's what all their friends are doing (don't kid yerself; these people exist).

Back when we were a bit snottier as a band we'd sometimes get into trouble because someone would eavesdrop on us talking amongst ourselves about what we didn't like about a specific band we were playing with that night or whatever, and all i could think was, "jeez, grow some skin, not everyone is gonna like what you do." When Yale and i were playing in our first few bands, we were absolutely terrible, and local kids were NOT shy shit-talking us to our faces about it. All it did was steel our resolve to do whatever the hell we wanted. Sometimes i think if this happened more often to people it'd separate the men from the boys, because yeah, i really do believe there are a lot of bands that coast by on people either saying "yeah, that was ok" or saying nothing at all that would crumble under actual, legit criticism.

All that said, i try not to lose too much sleep over the whole "too many bands" thing anymore and whether or not that's true. At the end of the day, if you're whining about it (which i have done), it's because you're pissed that all these bands are keeping YOU from getting noticed, getting shows, etc. Mind you, i still get pissy about it sometimes, especially when i'm trying to book a tour, but i'm getting better about remembering that at the end of the day, we should be doing this stuff mostly for ourselves, and what other people are doing in their bands ultimately has no bearing on that.

Kayte R. wrote:There just aren't enough venues and it's competitive to get booked. There aren't too many bands.

There are plenty of venues for bands to play if they aren't overly uppity about themselves and where they'll play.
If you will only consider the 'exclusive' clubs then yeah, it's competitive.

You can have a show anywhere

The number of bands hardly seems to be a problem. The fact that the underground is now the haven of people who do not want to push the envelope is a problem, i.e., the underground is constantly being dragged into this harsh spotlight or that. It is hard to do something new and different. I play in bands and can't say that anything I do is really new or different or good. I try. But I hunger for things that are not easy, things that catch me off guard. One does what one can.

I suppose that the number of bands, along with the relative ease with which one can find music that is like the music one is already familiar with, means that it is easier to get caught up in narrow pathways of taste, and that this fosters unfortunate, stultifying dynamics.

It used to be that starting a band and having fun and meeting other weirdos was a way of fighting back against social trends and even political structures that sought to establish certain conformities and ideals that excluded people. It was a way of chipping away at the status quo, which included racism, sexism, militant ignorance, etc. It wasn't just a consumer choice, even though the intoxicating aspects of 'the new' was definitely part of the equation. There are still pockets of that spirit, but it is drowned out by the din of less meaningful engagements. I like alot of the new pop music, the neu new wave, the computer box songsmithing. I don't care for the balkanization of the underground music scene.

I am guilty of virtually everything that I complain about. I try to see as many shows as I can (I have a family, school, home, etc., so my time is limited) and I try, in my little corner, to promote tolerance and curiosity in the name of creating an atmosphere wherein someone might be prone to feeling that their sense of alienation or affront in the face of something weird will not keep them from giving it a chance. Feeling put off or threatened or set akilter is important to the experience.

I can be a horrible bigot about music and the tastes of others. Terribly dismissive and judgmental. Maybe that is the best way, though I doubt it. Maybe trashing the efforts of others will help to trigger some sort of Darwinian attrition that will promote excellence and experimentation, etc.

Who can say?

the issue i have is with originality. whether what they're doing is delivered with some amount of conviction or passion.

i have a problem with the compromise of integrity of any kind. if it makes me an asshole to love something enough to keep it pure, then so be it. i'm ok with.

if i see someone halfass anything they're gonna hear about it.

do it like you love it, or just don't do it.

Germ War wrote:
What I'd like to ask is this: Is anyone in a band that they openly acknowledge is bad, has no business existing, and is willing to cease playing for the greater good of music?

Nah. I'm more against hearing music I don't want to hear absolutely everywhere I go---a restaurant, a grocery store, waiting rooms, etc.

Marsupialized wrote:You can have a show anywhere

Yeah! Why's it got to be at a bar or something anyways? There are plenty of places your friends can see your band play. My drummer's old band used to practice at a park.

that damned fly wrote:Heckle and Trash.

this would be a great band name! Dibs?

I don't join projects for the sake of joining them. I need to get something out of it, something that moves me on a personal level, and feels personally rewarding. biggest thing is being honest with myself, and I have to think a lot of people approach music with all the wrong reasons in mind.

with out mediocrity, I don't think good music would exist however. I don't know maybe that's a debatable statement...

I don't necessarily believe that doing something totally new is pushing the envelope. I don't think pushing the envelope is something anyone consciously does, and I'd have to say a band that takes this approach, is more often than not going to end up meshing with everything else.