How many more soldiers have to die for this shit?

13
I'm sure there are hundreds, thousands of soldiers over there that would love nothing more than to pull your insides out through your asshole for characterizing what they are doing as "Shit."


i know a couple guys that were in iraq for about a year. they both consider what they were doing and what is happening to be "shit."

the iraqi people will have a democratically elected leader that we choose for them. i don't understand how it will be any different from when we helped install hussein.

i don't know for sure what was being referred to by "shit" but from the query in the subject i imagine it is the callousness with which the administration so cavalierly sent our forces out on a vanity project.

How many more soldiers have to die for this shit?

14
6-4-3 wrote:"...this shit." ?????

WTF back at you.

I'm sure there are hundreds, thousands of soldiers over there that would love nothing more than to pull your insides out through your asshole for characterizing what they are doing as "Shit."

actually, a lot of them think it's shit.

Soldiers from around the globe are serving honorably (despite your opinion) for the eventual freedom of a country mired in misery for decades upon decades. Say what you want about the collective motive, but don't broad-stroke your bias and assert it towards what brave men and women are doing in Iraq - doing what you would seemingly never consider doing yourself, by the way.

Yeah I would never consider dying for Bush's mistake built on lies and deception. By the way bush's dad and his pals helped keep this fuck in power from the beginning knowing full well the evil of his empire. Maybe Bush can can bring out his dad's coke empire fueled money to pay for this blunder too.

Rather, use your uninformed eyes to look over those liberal-shaded spectacles for a moment and try acknowledging what a difference these soldiers are making. Making for the OVERWHELMING majority of people who welcome just the faintest glimpse at freedom, democracy and a life that doesn't include the possibility of having themselves and their family members dropped into a shredder because they took a dump at the wrong time of day.

Here is your biggest mistake. The morality of freedom was never given as the reason for going there. Hussein's supposed WMD's and ties to Ossama were. Not one Iraqi was on those twin tower planes. You would be surprised how many FOX news watchers think this! If morality was a factor, we would have been in Sudan when the mass slaughters began there. The Bush family and neo-conservatieves only gives a rats ass about democracy if there is something to be gained for it. By the way, freedom in Iraq must mean to you years of civil war, further destabilization of the region, more terrorism, alienating turkey, more $ for the oil companies, etc.....

There's a whole wide world of information out there beyond CNN, Michael Moore and Dan Rather, friend. Tap into it. Then maybe you'll see what the mainstream isn't feeding you. That people in Iraq can't wait to be free - and not a single one of them gives one rat's peanuty shit whether or not there were weapons of mass destruction in their country or not.

Fuck you. CNN is mediocre at best, Michael Moore's 911 was weak and not as biting as it could have been, and Dan Rather and his ilk have a serious bias to the left. You are the misguided dunce with the blinders on. Once again, we were never there to free anybody.

Big pictures are so often easy to see, but hard to understand - for some.

Like You



In addition, I will put it this way

War in Iraq - crap
War in Afghanistan - not crap

you need to read Noam Chomsky, read some history of the region, read about the three distanct religions/cultures of Iraq, read about the US involvement in both the politics and oil of the whole middle east including a major brush up on the cold war and it's effects on the middle east and africa, the purpose of Israel as a destabilzer, bush ties to both the ossama family and the cocaine trade in the 70's and 80's, the real reasons Iraq invaded Kuwait, the fallout of the Iraq and Iran war, why Afghanistan was left to hang dry after the sovet war. etc..........

The truth is not left or right, but it's there.
www.soutrane.com

How many more soldiers have to die for this shit?

15
6-4-3 wrote:Soldiers from around the globe are serving honorably (despite your opinion) for the eventual freedom of a country mired in misery for decades upon decades.



"Eventual Freedom" is a very ambiguous and ill-defined way to describe what will ultimately come from the current operation in Iraq. It is more realistic, if you are to follow historical trends as to what happens to militarily invaded and controlled nations that are then given a government that is put into place by that same military force.

I would say it is more realistic to prepare for several different civil wars on several different fronts, i.e. Religious, Socio-Economic, Cultural, Racial, etc.

You cannot install a belief system (freedom) through force. You are replacing control with another form of control, albeit from a Nation that almost 95% of the people of that country and countries surrounding it have a very deep, historically backed utter contempt and hatred for.

If only the delicious taste of a Big Mac could make a human want to shed their culture and want an SUV.

and I'm an independant.
But I digress. Please continue with the squirrel circuit semantic debate.

How many more soldiers have to die for this shit?

17
[quote="whiskerando"
the iraqi people will have a democratically elected leader that we choose for them. i don't understand how it will be any different from when we helped install hussein.
[/quote]

i really dont have much to add to this conversation but in regards to the above quote, you may be right...my mother is an iraqi citizen and can vote in the coming election if she chooses to...however, i dont think that it's going to happen because of the choices she has, she sees the same exact result as before, only under a different ruler.

i agree with andrew. i dont think i even care anymore. and its not just cuz i've been listening to "moving out" all day.

regards,
andyk
LingLing - www.myspace.com/linglingchicago

How many more soldiers have to die for this shit?

18
War is shit. I've noticed that those who tend to glorify and romanticize it tend to be the ones who haven't experienced it. Who said, "War is hell", a pacifist or a veteran? Is it a coincidence that the most dovish member of the first term Bush team happened to be the only combat veteran on it?

Most liberals I've talked to and read are very appreciative of the troops, most of whom are serving loyally and honorably. What we don't appreciate is the fact that their loyalty is being abused by an administration with some seriously screwed-up priorities.

It's particularly frustrating to see liberals painted as pro-Saddam. It ought to be obvious why, but I'll give you this as a partial explanation:

Image


And as for "I'm an independent" - well, that's the reason somebody made this little guy -> :roll:
Last edited by Linus Van Pelt_Archive on Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

How many more soldiers have to die for this shit?

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capnreverb wrote:The truth is not left or right, but it's there.


That is very true. the role of the U.N. in all your aforementioned events is very significant as well. there's more brewing out there than just iraq, believe that. honestly, we should be thankful that this hasn't blown up into a global war. a world war.

and we should pray/hope/whatever that it doesn't.
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

How many more soldiers have to die for this shit?

20
Intern_8033 wrote:So what's happening with our administration/country seems to be pretty much on par with human behavior throughout recorded history. Throwing our bodies in front of the train will slow it down, but it's going to get where it wants to go.

I hope that doesn't sound callous or insensitive.


Not so much 'callous or insensitive', but perhaps decadent. I am having trouble understanding your real position. You care enough to send $20 to the Tsunami relief. You also care enough to bother reading 'Old Farts Monthly'. So I find it hard to really believe that you don't care. If you think that you will save your 'energy' by living in a teflon-coated conscienceless existence then that is up to you. Perhaps you are more 'liberated' than me. Personally I would it find hard to not have a defined opinion on something that I have recognized to be wrong. Why if you have capacity of moral faculty would you short-circuit such a faculty? Sometimes it is difficult, as an individual, to relate to geo-political events and disaster, but I don't think individual is improved by bypassing moral decision. Perhaps moral sense is all the individual has in the face of such inscrutable problems.

I said 'decadent' because it seems to me that you are in the privileged position being free to hold any opinion you deem suitable, and well informed enough to make decisions of conscience, yet choose not care.

To put events events down to 'human behaviour', or to have a 'shit-happens' approach history, is kind of dangerous and irresponsible.

And another thing since when was 'socialism' a dirty word?

I would say that it is you, sir, that sounds like 'rambling liberal'.
.

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