same wrote:well, at least they're better than third generation joy division rip-offs, sisters of mercy.

Bauhaus's first single was released in '79, The Sisters of Mercy's first single was released in '80...i don't see this big generational gap you speak of...

robert thefamilyghost wrote:

same wrote:well, at least they're better than third generation joy division rip-offs, sisters of mercy.

Bauhaus's first single was released in '79, The Sisters of Mercy's first single was released in '80...i don't see this big generational gap you speak of...

well, the sex pistols' first release was in 1977 while the first gang of 4 release was 1978. the sex pistols were considered "punk" while gang of 4 were "post-punk". so i suppose that would make bauhaus "post-goth" to joy division's "goth" now wouldn't it? generation is a relative term to the fast paced world of rock and roll dude.

It doesn't matter who came first or what genre they are supposed to be in. All that matters is that you feel something when you listen to them. You all try to deconstruct things so much. Just take them for what they are. If we make mistakes in giving credit to people, so be it.

I wrote that song "The Rainbow Connection" and Andy Williams ripped it off, right from my piano! I swear, I had him over for brandy, and he stole it as I was in the kitchen fixing some canopes.

Do you hear me complaining about it?

You're just as bad as any other troll. Trying to figure out in your troll mind why your favorite band is better than another because this or that piece of crap came out in 1978.

Punk was invented in 1991. Didn't you see the movie about it?!? Sonic Youth, Mudhoney, and Dinosaur Jr. were the first punk bands. Deal with it.

Clueless in Chicago wrote:It doesn't matter who came first or what genre they are supposed to be in.

i know, i know, i know. i was making a joke in the first post and i was just doing what i do best, arguing semantics and destroying people's logic, in the second.

same wrote:well, the sex pistols' first release was in 1977 while the first gang of 4 release was 1978. the sex pistols were considered "punk" while gang of 4 were "post-punk". so i suppose that would make bauhaus "post-goth" to joy division's "goth" now wouldn't it? generation is a relative term to the fast paced world of rock and roll dude.

"post-punk" is a very different thing than the idea of "second generation punk"..."post-punk" implies it's taken a lot from punk but has moved on...after punk...something of the such could happen within a span of days..."second generation punk" would imply that this thing is definitely punk, but it's an evolved punk for a new group of people with altared aesthetics or whatever..."punk" and "post-punk" can rightfully co-exist...but the terms "first generation" and "second generation" don't coexist so well...if the second generation's in full swing and a new band comes along with a "first generation" sound then they're not part of the first generation they're just revivalists...that's why your analogy falls apart...

but back to Sisters of Mercy...they were influenced by original bands, not by derivatives...you can say they're derivative all you want, but they weren't a derivative of a derivative...which is what "third generation" implies...(like a band that's trying to sound like Nirvana or Franz Ferdinand...etc...)

robert thefamilyghost wrote:"punk" and "post-punk" can rightfully co-exist...but the terms "first generation" and "second generation" don't coexist so well...if the second generation's in full swing and a new band comes along with a "first generation" sound then they're not part of the first generation they're just revivalists...that's why your analogy falls apart...

what do you mean? my dad and i are of seperate generations, yet we coexist. and by definition "post" refers to after, so something that's post-"something" can't really exist alongside that "something" it's the prefix to. the post-world war 2 era did not co-exist with world war 2 for example, but i'd say it was possible that father and son could have fought alongside each other during that war, despite being from seperate generations wouldn't you? i guess the problem we're having right now is rooted in the difference between the english language, and the way it's used by most music critics. so, in closing, fuck them.

same wrote:i guess the problem we're having right now is rooted in the difference between the english language, and the way it's used by most music critics. so, in closing, fuck them.

true that, so i'll go back to my initial point: calling Sisters of Mercy third generation Joy Division rip-offs or whatever it was is infeasible...calling them Joy Division rip-offs is feasible...i wouldn't agree with it, but it is feasible terminology...

that comment i made about sisters of mercy was just kind of a fleeting joke, so, oops. i really don't know much about them, but i know i don't like what i've heard so i take pot shots, y'know.

Peter Murphy took about as much cock in the eye as anyone could. Brave man. I still remembered the cock-eyed look he gave to the hippy roady who rushed out on stage to give him the mic that should have been set up, at the most dramatic moment of Bela Lugsosi's Dead. You know, after 15 minutes of that same riff with Peter posing, when he finally sings the 6 lines of lyrics. That cock-eyed look made me a fan for life!

Goth? I thought these guys were klezmer. I mean, the clarinets were out of control!

bump: for two reasons.

1) they are apparently touring, and it might be fun to see them if i could ignore the crowd, and all the songs from the singles. Has anyone seen them in their geezerhood? Are they noizy and good, or poppy and soft? I always liked D.Ash's guitar sound, even in ToT.

2) that first Bauhaus LP (in the flat field) is fucking awesome, and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. the guitar tone, the songs, the noise, the vocal performance, all outstanding. at times as good as, or better than the birthday party. where Bauhaus went from there, it is sad, but i think mostly a product of the worst parts of the British Virgin/NME/Sounds/BBC pop music industry which is easily the equal of the US band-ruining industry.

and another thing: blaming a band for all the horribly stupid things their fans do/say/wear is bullshit. sure, the Goth scene is bullshit. So are most "scenes", even the ones we come from and (hopefully) outgrow and transcend. No, i'm not, and never was a Goth. I have fantazised about some goth women, though.