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Re: Rock & roll thunderdome: Melody vs. Noise

Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:17 am
by seby
kokorodoko wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:16 pm
Your music now makes so much more sense to me.

Doh! Well...back to the drawing board for me now I guess : /

Seriously however, if only for the moment, thanks for both listening and reflecting on it! As it happens I am working on some new stuff with a fairly "melody-forward" twist (by my standards at least). My hope is to not always play all of the notes, or even most of them. There is a kind of vastness to negative space that I am chasing, which is very hard to corral. To indicate a whole sound-world whilst making the least noise, to sketch a universe with the fewest brush strokes. Awareness needs space to breath and expand, and I have no idea what I am doing yet.

Oh God, I lived in a bindi-chakra-firetwirling trance house there for a while back in the 90s. They stank. Fuck me they stank.

Re: Rock & roll thunderdome: Melody vs. Noise

Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:30 am
by Dovira
seby wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:17 am Seriously however, if only for the moment, thanks for both listening and reflecting on it!
Hey, no problem. To be honest the music is pretty confounding and off-putting to me. I immediately thought of the very early Tangerine Dream records, which are like that. But that's why it interests me to consider what would drive someone to make music like that. I like the whole thing of channeling the atmosphere of a location that I feel you got going on.

seby wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:17 amThere is a kind of vastness to negative space that I am chasing,
What does this mean?

Re: Rock & roll thunderdome: Melody vs. Noise

Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:43 am
by iembalm
Both, please.




Re: Rock & roll thunderdome: Melody vs. Noise

Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:46 pm
by seby
kokorodoko wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:30 am
seby wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:17 am Seriously however, if only for the moment, thanks for both listening and reflecting on it!
Hey, no problem. To be honest the music is pretty confounding and off-putting to me. I immediately thought of the very early Tangerine Dream records, which are like that. But that's why it interests me to consider what would drive someone to make music like that. I like the whole thing of channeling the atmosphere of a location that I feel you got going on.

seby wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:17 amThere is a kind of vastness to negative space that I am chasing,
What does this mean?
God sorry, this is hard for me to grasp, and my explanations are thinner than they might be. I am going to resort to analogies (which is often a sure fire sign that I have no idea what I am talking about, but I digress).

Painting. To paint a huge space you cannot paint in the empty space (the negative space) between things directly. If so there would not be negative space there anymore, by definition. There would be some object instead. Some painters can paint the tiniest thing, just hanging there in nothingness, but you feel like you are hanging in the voids as this thing passes by. It's just incredible. Paintings like this repay repeated viewings. Think of traditional Chinese guó huà painting. There are so few strokes on the parchment, but they are like windows into other worlds. If they were to fill the painting with detail, then this effect would be lost.

Film. Some great films can let you peak into entire histories, often with very little dialogue. I am thinking of films like Bladerunner and Rampart. They leave negative informational space there to great effect, and fill it with few things. Films like this repay repeated viewings too. Other films completely butcher this, by describing every detail in very heavy handed ways. For example, take John Hillcoat's The Proposition. The scene where the bounty hunter is referred to as "bounty hunter" (in the shack), is so ham-fisted. It ruins the film in a desperate attempt to make the situation clear to even the most stupid viewer. By adding the descriptive detail, the thing being described is destroyed.

Music. Same as above. I love the Cure, but almost every idea is on display and up front. There is nowhere to move with the experience. Everything is laid out in front of you in great detail. Around Seventeen Seconds and Faith, they were happier to leave vast spaces, as the melodies are sketched out as opposed to displayed in full detail. So I guess that I am trying to approach melody along the lines of guó huà painting. To let negative space engage on its own terms. This means sketching the elements of a sonic world very carefully and delicately. Otherwise instead of revealing this sonic world, I would be displaying the sketches, displaying the sonic gestures themselves. It is hard for melody to do this.

Is this making any sense at all?

Re: Rock & roll thunderdome: Melody vs. Noise

Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:06 pm
by Dovira
seby wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:46 pmIs this making any sense at all?
Yeah it's clear enough, but it's the word "negative" that I was wondering about. What you describe sounds like simply... space. Is there "positive space"? (honest question)

Re: Rock & roll thunderdome: Melody vs. Noise

Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:25 pm
by seby
kokorodoko wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:06 pm
seby wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:46 pmIs this making any sense at all?
Yeah it's clear enough, but it's the word "negative" that I was wondering about. What you describe sounds like simply... space. Is there "positive space"? (honest question)
Ah, by positive space I mean just where the sounds are - space filled

I think of space in positive and negative terms!! A blank canvas has neither positive nor negative space. A blank audio file has neither positive nor negative space. As soon as something is put there, there is a contrast between positive and negative space. Negative space is not nothingness, but the spatial opposition to positive space.

Edit - here is some stuff that I think really pulls this off:






Re: Rock & roll thunderdome: Melody vs. Noise

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:30 am
by seby
Well you cannot make this up!

Check this out - https://www.stereogum.com/2149872/rober ... DyzmEpydMI

Re: Rock & roll thunderdome: Melody vs. Noise

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:19 pm
by A_Man_Who_Tries
seby wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:30 am Well you cannot make this up!

Check this out - https://www.stereogum.com/2149872/rober ... DyzmEpydMI
Haha, well how about that then?!

Re: Rock & roll thunderdome: Melody vs. Noise

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:36 pm
by jfv
Nice time to resurrect this thread..

I think I said "melody" before but definitely voting "melody" now.

The Jesus Lizard are a melodic hard-rock band with a lunatic lead vocalist. They are not a noise rock band.

Re: Rock & roll thunderdome: Melody vs. Noise

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:12 pm
by numberthirty
seby wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:59 am Noise for me.

Once I can hum a melody I loose interest in it pretty quickly. It’s the textures that get me
What if you let Sneaky Pete play melodies as things get more and more "Noise Fest..."?