Premier Rock Forum

I agree that it's really situational and in a case by case basis, but he answer is a definite Yes. I'm going to get a bit personal... feel free to skip.

The one that is really challenging for me lately has been Mark Kozelek / Red House Painters. I loved his early stuff. It really hit me over the years, especially after moving to the Bay Area. It always made me wish I'd moved to San Francisco in the pre-cellphone, pre-internet-boom era... but I digress.

I read interviews and he always came off poorly. It was never enough to dissuade me from listening to the music. He was just a grumpy dude who seemed shitty to some people.

I forgot about them/him for years, and then the classical guitar album came out in 2010. I really loved that record. I was actually quite inspired by that record. And then I got some shitty stories from Bay Area friends about interactions over the years. More shithead behavior from musicians, engineers, and so on.

Then the flood of sexual misconduct and emotional manipulation stories came out. It's really bad, I can't say I'm surprised, and I fully believe it. It's so bad that when I hear the early stuff that was emotionally touching, it comes off as gross and makes me feel pretty bad for trying to get back in there and enjoy it. The song narratives take on new meanings and the content is getting reprocessed as coming from a sexual abuser.

Still, just last month one of those classical guitar songs from 2010 popped into my head. I went back and listened to parts of the album. The lyrics and his voice grossed me out, but I could still get useful stuff from studying the song structure and guitar playing. The musicality of the guitar playing still had beauty. But, even if it was an instrumental album, I would still feel gross just knowing the content of the character behind it. Maybe it's so strong because he's a contemporary, he's based out of a place that I lived and worked, and people I know have had first-hand experiences.

I can see how this can get messy for people.

I mentioned in the Guilty Pleasures thread that I liked Marilyn Manson's Antichrist Superstar, but in light of the recent allegations about Mr. Manson, I'm probably only going to listen to that album on my iPod or some other medium that doesn't net him any more money.

penningtron wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:40 am

then again there are shitheads who make great music.

Not being combative I swear: I'm curious about modern-ish examples of this? A Melvins-free discussion, I hope..

Honestly I can't think of anything modern. What you quoted is meant to be taken in a general sense as I'm sure there is some jerk out there making wonderful music.

I try no to learn anything about the people that make the music or movies I like. I kinda live in a cave where music happens and I have no idea who made it. Movies are harder because you actually have to look at peeps faces, so when I see that some guy was caught with a bus load of 8th graders on his way to a commune outside of Reno and I notice it he was in an episode of Pete and Pete, I get a little bummed about it. I'm not going to NOT watch Pete and Pete.

rsmurphy wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:50 pm

penningtron wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:40 am

then again there are shitheads who make great music.

Not being combative I swear: I'm curious about modern-ish examples of this? A Melvins-free discussion, I hope..

Honestly I can't think of anything modern. What you quoted is meant to be taken in a general sense as I'm sure there is some jerk out there making wonderful music.

Yeah, to me the social media era has made this scenario less likely. "So and so is saying transphobic shit all over the place, but WHATTA BOUT THAT ART.."

Though I suppose it's possible to be good and not openly shitty!

Depends entirely on the behavior.

Van Morrison has given me great pause lately, to be sure. Totally sucks. On the same side of the coin, I don't give a rat's ass what King Buzzo (sorry, folks) believes and it has zero effect on whether or not I'm going to listen to Bullhead. Odd because Astral Weeks is probably in my top 10 all time records...but the thought of trying to listen to it now turns my stomach.

I get the feeling Neil Young probably isn't the nicest fellow but I still listen. I know for a fact David Thomas is a dick, but I've probably seen Ubu more live than any other band. So it's all over the map. I guess I don't care if the artist is a prick, but do if they do reprehensible things to other people.

It's rare for a musician or fine artist to commit a "sin" great enough that I'll stop consuming entirely. Other kinds of artists, not so much. Can't explain why...but when it comes to dudes like Louis CK or Kevin Spacey, for instance, I'm completely donezo.

It's the "bad taste in the mouth" test that makes the decision.

No. Never been an issue for me.

I think about this a lot. I've noticed that dead authors and filmmakers totally get a pass from me and I couldn't figure out why I haven't touched a Sun Kil Moon record in a couple years, but I'll read an author who's interactions with people are problematic.

I think the root of this is that musicians, and actors are part of popular culture. A pop star is this persona where their medium is only one part of what their presence communicates. Michael Stipe isn't just the voice of an REM record, he's also the inscrutable, agnostic, bisexual figure who seems powerfully introverted. That's part of what you experience when you hear him. It's part of what you like (or dislike in some people's cases).

Morrissey's navel gazing, self importance feels way less charming when you realize he's a total prick. A singer's sensitivities move from confessional revelation, to more self-important drivel when you no longer find them sympathetic as a character.

I'm still bummed about Har Mar Superstar. That problem really ruins the enjoyment of his music for me.

Sometimes, an artist’s good behavior will make me feel better about their music, even if I still don’t like it.

Pearl Jam used to make me viscerally angry. These days, I look at them and see five guys who like each other’s company, who have gratitude for the success they’ve achieved, who treat people well, who don’t gouge their fans, and who uncynically make the kind of music they want to make, even if that music happens to be middle-brow dad rock.

I can’t feel angry about that at all any more.

penningtron wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:40 am

then again there are shitheads who make great music.

Not being combative I swear: I'm curious about modern-ish examples of this? A Melvins-free discussion, I hope..

I suppose "shithead" needs to be defined. GG Allin was a shithead.