M.H wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:17 am

biscuitdough wrote: You say a lot of crap things, but this is among the crappiest. You’re entitled to your opinion, misinformed as it is, but the last sentence is complete horseshit.

If I'm so wrong then it should be super easy to say why I'm wrong than resort to ad hominems.

There's lots of retro-minded Japanese bands who do sub-cultural regurgitation with an attention to detail in an unusual way. Are you disputing that? The whole Shibuya-Kei thing in the 90s, the bizarre takes on nearly every extreme rock sub-genre - even Oi:



IMO Boris do this w/ Melvins / Earth style heavy rock / drone. And they suck.

Nah I’m good. Your bias is obvious and you don’t discuss in good faith.

Boris isn't really my thing as I don't care for drone, but that BXI EP with Ian Astbury was surprisingly good.

M.H wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:24 am that kind of finicky cultural regurgitation is very Japanese.

That is some racist bullshit, dude.

finicky cultural regurgitation is everywhere, it is not a Japanese thing. rock and roll is all about theft and appropriation.

oh and Boris are not crap, which is beside the point, at this point.

Yes.. I'm so glad every derivative American/European metal band gets called out on ethnic/cultural grounds

...

I only heard Pink when it was sort of hyped and wasn't into it. Kinda sloppy to my ears.

penningtron wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:13 pm Kinda sloppy to my ears.

Kinda what I dig about it. I have almost zero patience for Metal that is overly articulate. Gives me Guitar Center Dude vibes. I'm down with a lot of Boris. It's kinda fun. I like the weird record they put out with Sunn. Saw them at the Doug Fir which is a pretty small venue that feels like a bar from Twin Peaks. It was a goodtime.

I like Boris. I don't like all their albums, but boy, they sure do make a lot in all sorts of vibes. I like their drone and big riff stuff the most. I like some of their noise stuff, but I didn't dig the pop stuff or the anime soundtrack sounding stuff. They can be all over the place. I liked them the one time I caught them live, but I also felt really cruddy so I hung back.

I've been on an album buying hiatus since I moved from Ohio, so I've only listened to more recent stuff streaming. Some of it is good and doomy. I've actually sort of gone back to their early stuff and dig it. I am bummed that I can't even afford some of their records on CD as they aren't reprinted as you might think.

Lately my jams are the first two(?) albums (Absolute Ego and Amplifier) and the first, orange Heavy Rocks. Man, Heavy Rocks is a good time. Wish I had it in disc format. That album is sorta between the drone-doom and the big riff-rock stuff.

Then you have the albums that do a little bit of everything like Akuma no Uta and Pink. Smile does this too, but I just don't dig it that much. Do try and find online something that is other tracks or demos from the Pink sessions or something. My download is all japanese characters, so it's confusing. But it is really good. FInd it.

Then you have some noisy but kind a chill stuff like Flood and Boris at Last -Feedbacker-. I love those, perhaps my favorites. Really wish I had those on physical media. Up there with those is Soundtrack from the Film Mabuta no Ura, of which I do have a copy. Really good.

Rainbow (with Michio Kurihara) is super good, I recall.

Sun Baked Snow Cave is alright. Pretty chill, meditative. Ain't no Flood or Feedbacker.

Altar (with Sunn O)))) is good and doomy drone, but not just that.

Cloud Chamber (with Michio Kurihara) ummmmm . . . Pretty chill, meditative. Ain't no Flood or Feedbacker.

That is about all I can remember. Oh and I've heard (on youtube) NO from last year. I liked it.

M.H wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:17 amThere's lots of retro-minded Japanese bands who do sub-cultural regurgitation with an attention to detail in an unusual way. Are you disputing that? The whole Shibuya-Kei thing in the 90s, the bizarre takes on nearly every extreme rock sub-genre - even Oi:

I'm a pretty big japanophile and I don't even dispute the point about "cultural regurgitation", but the shibuya-kei thing I think had a pretty peculiar aura of its own.
Even more weird than Oi is a whole scene inspired by Swedish d-beat punk (Anti-Cimex etc.), with band names like Framtid ("future") and Frigöra ("liberate" - who even sang their songs in Swedish... or something like it).

As far as Boris goes though, I completely disagree. For me they were just one more band in the doom-stoner wave. Never listened to them and thought "hm this sounds like a knock-off of x band".

I really like that Dronevil album. Couldn't remember the name before. I'm all for their long form stuff. I think that's where it is for me.

Agreeing w/Kokosan about the lack of controversy surrounding Japanese cultural regurgitation. Copying unusual or minute details ties in to both otaku and collector culture as well as to much older notions of reverence and respect in Japanese society. It's a thing, and it's not necessarily seen as a negative by many of the Japanese people I know. (I worked for a Japanese company, have traveled there extensively, and played fill-in guitar in a band from Tokyo.)

Also agree that neither Shibuya kei nor Boris seem like big "offenders" (ahem) in this respect. Both are influenced by a broad range of artists, despite being heavily genre-based.

Back to the first point: I can't help but bring up the '80s "junk rock" boom in Tokyo, during which underground bands were obsessed w/the finer points of Neubauten and, to a lesser extent, the Birthday Party. Many of them played metal percussion and a few went as far as to sing in both broken and real German. An excellent single by Zeitlich Vergelter comes to mind. The singer actually called himself Neu, for Chrissakes. The interesting thing is that this music would have never been performed by an American, British, or even German band. And so, the homage winds up sounding very, very... Japanese.

They have put out a Christmas cover!