Re: Best near/midfield monitors for an untreated room?

11
ChudFusk wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:48 am
Mason wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:05 amI also keep Airwindows Monitoring on my DAW stereo bus, defaulting to PeaksOnly mode, and will toggle it on as needed (it's just a mix check tool, you leave it bypassed/in one of the "out" modes for printing a mix). Free, indispensible.
I'm trying to figure out what this is.
Overall the Monitoring plugin is a bundle of "mix test" environments. Done in a less kitschy way than those "emulate the mixing room at Abbey Road" plugins. Different modes like sub frequencies only, Auratone-style freq response, that kind of thing.

I don't know how crucial those are but specifically I wanted to highlight PeaksOnly mode (standalone) when it comes to your question. Well it's off-topic but it's in light of having an untreated room. I flip the plugin on as I'm getting a mix where I like it and make tweaks based on what it gives me. That is, if the bass is too woofy or a channel fader is up too high in PeaksOnly mode, it is too woofy/up too high in real life, simple as. Then turn it off and make final tweaks and output my stereo file.

I will turn the mic over to the Airwindows guy because I do not understand the stuff enough personally;
Here’s how it works. PeaksOnly runs a little pile of allpass filters, but rather than just make them nice-sounding, it expands and expands and expands them, each time phase-rotating things a little more. It turns transient attacks of any kind into a little colorful wash, a flag of energy that stays at roughly the same level, but gets smeared out across time in a way you’d never normally hear.

Why does this matter? Because you wouldn’t hear it. Especially if you’re trying to work on headphones, brief sharp transients can become almost totally invisible, especially if they’re being peak-limited or get blended in with other sounds. That stuff can make your mix come alive, but how do you balance it? And if you’re on headphones, forget it: some peaks are just too brief, and unless you have a strangely powerful sense of energy levels that are normally invisible, there will be no managing the stuff that you simply can’t hear, the spiky intense sparks of audio like you get from passionate performances or tricks like using compression to spike up attack transients.

But with PeaksOnly, everything stays at exactly the same frequency balance (a trick of allpasses, especially mine which are prime-number spaced) but the bursts of energy, no matter how brief, get transformed into recognizable signals. If you’re short on transient impact, you’ll notice it. If you’re over-squashing attacks, you’ll end up with audio porridge. But if you’ve got a powerful, kicking, lively mix… every detail of it will be laid bare, turned into a sort of pantomime that exposes every transient at every frequency. Whether it’s how loud to make that snare or hi-hat, or how much sub-kick you can get away with, it’s all exposed. PeaksOnly is particularly fond of taking excess subsonic peaks and distorting ’em: you’ll never pack too much into the subs again.

It also tries to keep you at a sane loudness level (suitable for sending to mastering, if you really think you need to loudenate).
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Re: Best near/midfield monitors for an untreated room?

12
Mason wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:42 pm
ChudFusk wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:48 am
Mason wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:05 amI also keep Airwindows Monitoring on my DAW stereo bus, defaulting to PeaksOnly mode, and will toggle it on as needed (it's just a mix check tool, you leave it bypassed/in one of the "out" modes for printing a mix). Free, indispensible.
I'm trying to figure out what this is.
Overall the Monitoring plugin is a bundle of "mix test" environments. Done in a less kitschy way than those "emulate the mixing room at Abbey Road" plugins. Different modes like sub frequencies only, Auratone-style freq response, that kind of thing.

I don't know how crucial those are but specifically I wanted to highlight PeaksOnly mode (standalone) when it comes to your question. Well it's off-topic but it's in light of having an untreated room. I flip the plugin on as I'm getting a mix where I like it and make tweaks based on what it gives me. That is, if the bass is too woofy or a channel fader is up too high in PeaksOnly mode, it is too woofy/up too high in real life, simple as. Then turn it off and make final tweaks and output my stereo file.

I will turn the mic over to the Airwindows guy because I do not understand the stuff enough personally;
a bunch of stuff.
If I understand all that, it is kind of like listening to a Waterfall Spectrum Analysis? Like like listening to the hanging tones that are taking longer to decay from the mix than others? Kinda?

Just checked it out. Kinda neat. I get how it can help isolate weirdness. Actually helpful if you are using Eventide Split EQ, which IMO can cause more problems than it solves if you aren't really careful. I put it on a track followed by split eq, and monitored through it until I liked what Split EQ did to it, then I bypassed the Monitor2 Plug and what was left was a more subtitle, useful version of what I usually get when using Split EQ alone.
Was Japmn.

New OST project: https://japmn.bandcamp.com/album/flight-ost
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Re: Best near/midfield monitors for an untreated room?

14
ChudFusk wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:01 pm Good stuff, thanks Mason I will look more into this. And interesting to hear about Split EQ because I was thinking about getting it, though I'm still mad I didn't buy when it was $99.
I kinda wish I hadn't bought it at all. It is an interesting idea that falls into the "too fiddly" and "a bit of a waste of time" category of plugins, but it can be used as a good EQ as well as the transient/tonal mode and that is fine.
Was Japmn.

New OST project: https://japmn.bandcamp.com/album/flight-ost
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Re: Best near/midfield monitors for an untreated room?

15
bishopdante wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:46 pm
ChudFusk wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:36 pm Don't shit down my neck, I know the best way to good sound is a properly treated room. But let's be realistic. What monitors do you recommend for a small room with suboptimal acoustics? I've heard that ports, at least rear ports, are undesirable if there isn't proper control of what's behind them. How about digitally controlled speakers (not sure how else to refer to them, but the kind where you set up a mic and turn on some function that tunes them to the room)? Are coaxials my best bet? School me on everything EXCEPT how I should treat my room.
The easiest way to exclude the influence of the room is as follows (in my humble opinion)

- use a very small high quality monitor loudspeaker very close to you, either full range or two way, and 100mm is about the right dimension
- use a sealed box system to achieve gentle low frequency roll off, and no subwoofer
- do not turn it up hugely loud
- do not expect perfection
- put clutter in the room - stack up a bunch of non permanent items around the room to scatter and absorb any resonances or flutter / ring.
- hang up blackout felt - proper curtain rail / track is ideal, but you can even just chuck it over a section of scaff pole or over a lighting stand/mic stand to create a sound absorbing barrier / curtain effect. A tent is not too hard to build with some timber or metal poles and a pile of blackout, and that's basically how you rig a venue for high volume sound reinforcement - you build a black heavyweight felt tent inside the place.

___

I don't really like ringing out wedge monitors let alone automatic room correction, but a good modern speaker controller such as miniDSP does pretty amazing stuff in the right hands, including linearising phase response. You cannot fix a bad room with a speaker controller, though. I generally prefer such "room correction" things switched off.
All of this is the most sense you have ever made. Can't argue with any of this advice.
Was Japmn.

New OST project: https://japmn.bandcamp.com/album/flight-ost
https://japmn.bandcamp.com/album/numberwitch
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Re: Best near/midfield monitors for an untreated room?

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numberthirty wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:29 pm Related -

Dude knows his shit, but I super disagree with all that corrective EQ. Additive EQ is not going to fix a Freq dip that is being caused by Phase cancelation/room mode shit. It will work your monitors harder though. the first thing I would have don if I was him is find anywhere else to put my monitors so that one ear wasn't against the wall like that. He gets paid more than me though, so what do I know? I have found that only using subtractive EQ when "correcting" a space is the only thing that sound usable and it still sounds really dumb because the closest distance to the speakers is hearing the scooped EQ, and most of the mode stuff and phase cancelation is hitting the ear milliseconds later. It doesn't sound good to me. I almost always prefer the "uncorrected" sound of the monitors, especially once I get used to them. I do agree that grabbing a bunch of well placed couch cushions is a better way to "correct" what you are hearing.
Was Japmn.

New OST project: https://japmn.bandcamp.com/album/flight-ost
https://japmn.bandcamp.com/album/numberwitch
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Re: Best near/midfield monitors for an untreated room?

20
ChudFusk wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:40 pm
Kniferide wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:25 pmAll of this is the most sense you have ever made.
Does there always have to be a jab in replies to FMbd? It's my thread and I consider him a friend, so please.
Kniferide wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:25 pmCan't argue with any of this advice.
You could have left it at that.
you are right.
Was Japmn.

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