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Drummer's perspective in the studio, audience perspective live.

This is the way.

MONO DRUMS, COWARDS.

Overdub 3 separate kits, one hard left, one hard right, drum machine down the center

I'm a "drummer's perspective only" guy, unless it's panning for effect or doin' it in mono. I am absolutely here for hard-panned mono kits, like "My Girl" or something. Low does this pretty well, especially on Drums and Guns.

I can only record a stereo pair in audiance perspective because of the constraints of my project studio. What's that "drummer man" set up people talk about?

Garth wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 1:36 pm

twelvepoint wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 1:30 pm The snarky other choice is to pan drums entirely left or right. Which I personally wouldn’t dare do, but it’s a bold move.

lol - those early stereo experiments in the 50s (or 60s?) did this with often weirdly hilarious results. I think some of the early Devo stuff did this too. You learn pretty quick that the CD-tape-deck-adapter in the 30 year old dodgy band-van has a short in it that way

The Deathray Davies did it on at least a few tunes. That said, it was pretty squarely "Early Stereo Experiments..."

I mix both live and in the studio.

Live I try to pan according to what you're seeing onstage as an audience member, There are good arguments against radical panning live, but I usally choose to ignore them.

In the studio there are two factors in my reasoning:

1 - there's no such thing as realism, that's not how we listen to records, and I don't buy that we listen to recorded music picturing an imaginary band in an imaginary stage in front of us, it's something else entirely

2- if someone is really paying attention to the panning of drums, they're usually musicians or people who air-play instruments, even if only in their minds. Plus, we never know just from listening how the drummer's kit is set up. So I always do drummer perspective. I've never even once been asked to do otherwise, and at very least the person who played the drums will feel comfortable hearing it. I'm all for radical panning choices (drums all to one side, etc) but it's rare that the context is right for it.

So, drummers perspective.

Maybe I'm an ignoramus, but listening live isn't the stereo field of a typical rock kit like basically nothing? So introducing separation is wholly artificial, which I think is totally fine, but who the fuck considers which channel the toms are coming from as long as the mix is pleasing? You guys, I guess. It seems most exciting when you pan toms (like ringo's The End solo), which is even more of an affectation..

Bernardo wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:28 pm Live I try to pan according to what you're seeing onstage as an audience member, There are good arguments against radical panning live, but I usally choose to ignore them.

Whoa, wait, stop. What size of rooms are you working and how wide? My first thought reading this is that this seems like you're doing a disservice to anyone who is not standing within the cone of dispersion of both mains & this could be quite a wide swath of your audience depending on a list of factors too long to list.

I've been to shows even in smaller rooms where there were two guitar players and the room acoustics were such that I couldn't hear one of the guitar players...then I moved around in the room and realized the sound guy was keeping the stereo spread by panning the guitars hard left and right. Super fucking annoying as an audience member. It felt very much like a case of "sounds cool to me back here bro"

Garth wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:32 am

Bernardo wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:28 pm Live I try to pan according to what you're seeing onstage as an audience member, There are good arguments against radical panning live, but I usally choose to ignore them.

Whoa, wait, stop. What size of rooms are you working and how wide? My first thought reading this is that this seems like you're doing a disservice to anyone who is not standing within the cone of dispersion of both mains & this could be quite a wide swath of your audience depending on a list of factors too long to list.

I've been to shows even in smaller rooms where there were two guitar players and the room acoustics were such that I couldn't hear one of the guitar players...then I moved around in the room and realized the sound guy was keeping the stereo spread by panning the guitars hard left and right. Super fucking annoying as an audience member. It felt very much like a case of "sounds cool to me back here bro"

It depends on the room and the element in the mix, and on the part of the song and the element's role on it (meaning things move around depending if they should get the spotlight or not). I work several size rooms / situations. It always depends.

Speaking specifically about guitars, there's more often than not a lot of guitar sound coming from the stage (not sure which shows you're going to) to make up for the center, especially for the people who are closer to the stage, almost as a front fill.

There are also actual front fills, which I generally use mono, and always ask for. I also have a separate mix for those, because there's usually a lot of drums and often guitars already coming from the stage on mid-sized and smalller spaces. And then it's different if it's more of an electronic setting, etc.

So, yeah, mixing. Not done automatically.

Also, for the studio version:

zorg wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:42 am who the fuck considers which channel the toms are coming from as long as the mix is pleasing?

Yeah, this.