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Curry Pervert wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:58 pm Up until about 15 years ago every study in the UK that had been done on speed cameras showed that they increase accidents. Of course, the powers that be couldn't have evidence showing that it's really just a stealth tax so they manufactured their own studies and paid for them to show at the top of search results.
Oh, and they also changed the name to 'safety cameras' just to complete the propaganda circle.


Crap.

Did the studies suggest reasons for increases in accidents? Were drivers slowing abruptly and causing rear end collisions? Over what period of time did accidents increase and did they stay at that level?

The cops seem to have lost their zeal for speed cameras in recent years. The permanent cameras seem to have been taken down and I don't know when the last time I saw a surprise pop-up speed trap. They were right into them for a while but I think they must have been proven ineffective in the long run.

The rule always was that you can't get demerits on your license from a speed camera fine, only from an actual cop stopping you.

These days if there's a long straight road running past a school they just say fuck you, we're going to install an assload of speed bumps.

Anti, as implemented in Chicago.

They go off if you're 6mph over, which equates to 36mph on Western or Foster...4-lane roads where that speed is completely utterly fine if you have little enough traffic to hit it. You can tell I have a certain number of 36mph citations to my credit.

They're also disproportionately in poorer neighborhoods.

I think if they hit at 10mph over, city streets only, I'd be OK with it. Or if the speed limits on the bigger thoroughfares were reasonable. At least they're not on Lake Shore Drive (posted limit 40mph, observed limit closer to 60mph).

I didn't like the red light cameras either, but begrudgingly I must admit I've adjusted.

Of course, the city wouldn't make enough money off them if they were only 10mph+. Which is why they are the way they are.

Red light cameras in TX resulted in a fine that some couldn't pay, and then the fine would hit your credit report if you didn' pay it, but did nothing to your ability to continue driving. OBVS that's crap, since if you can't afford to pay it, hitting the credit report isn't gonna improve the ability to pay. I know they've taken them all down in NTX after they proved completely ineffective at stopping the actual offense and really just fucked poor people - and the rich just disputed it on their credit report so, lose lose.

I think the proper way to do this is to have a points system - we have a problem with dangerous drivers here, and I don't really mind using tech to keep public spaces safe, especially when it comes to a luxury item like a car. Chronically dangerous people shouldn't be able to put others in harms way.

I dunno the threshold, but that's the system I'd try next.

Example - my wife is an insurance broker, and she got a frantic call from an acquaintance who needed car insurance b/c they'd been dropped by their carrier. Turns out the reason was her husband had 5 wrecks in 12 months where he was at fault, and all required a paramedic of some kind. Insane. The insurance companies were the ones taking the guy off the road before the state would do it. Because liberty? I dunno.

At any rate, people like that should have to find safer ways to travel. He probably would have been stopped sooner with better tech and a better disciplinary system.

She couldn't find them insurance lol.

Frankie99 wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:26 am
I think the proper way to do this is to have a points system - we have a problem with dangerous drivers here, and I don't really mind using tech to keep public spaces safe, especially when it comes to a luxury item like a car. Chronically dangerous people shouldn't be able to put others in harms way.

I dunno the threshold, but that's the system I'd try next.

I think this is where I am with this as well. I'm personally mostly concerned about the residential streets that people here in the SF Bay Area speed on as they head for the freeway (which will itself be jammed, so why hurry?). One of the more effective things I've seen is parked (and empty) police SUVs along wide and tempting stretches of road. This is a very suburban solution, but maybe Potemkin police cruisers (they could double as little free libraries?) would help.

LuciousSandwich wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:46 pm

Curry Pervert wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:58 pm Up until about 15 years ago every study in the UK that had been done on speed cameras showed that they increase accidents. Of course, the powers that be couldn't have evidence showing that it's really just a stealth tax so they manufactured their own studies and paid for them to show at the top of search results.
Oh, and they also changed the name to 'safety cameras' just to complete the propaganda circle.


Crap.

Did the studies suggest reasons for increases in accidents? Were drivers slowing abruptly and causing rear end collisions? Over what period of time did accidents increase and did they stay at that level?

I don't have the memory to answer all of this, but I think most of the accidents were caused by automatic braking. I've seen it often myself, people who are already well under the speed limit see a camera and hit the brake like Pavlov's dog.

Curry Pervert wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:58 pm Up until about 15 years ago every study in the UK that had been done on speed cameras showed that they increase accidents. Of course, the powers that be couldn't have evidence showing that it's really just a stealth tax so they manufactured their own studies and paid for them to show at the top of search results.
Oh, and they also changed the name to 'safety cameras' just to complete the propaganda circle.


Crap.

This. I've just been hit with a ticket for doing 61 in a 50 zone on a motorway. This is NOT doing 80 in a 20 outside a school. It's completely harmless. The fine is a bad joke.

So: either I pay £100 and have 3 points on my licence for 3 years, or pay £85 and have to spend three hours on a tedious speed-awareness course. The whole thing is nothing more than a revenue generator.

And I live in Wales, which has just gone 20mph on all roads that were previously 30. Sigh...

Pembs wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2023 6:45 pm

Curry Pervert wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:58 pm Up until about 15 years ago every study in the UK that had been done on speed cameras showed that they increase accidents. Of course, the powers that be couldn't have evidence showing that it's really just a stealth tax so they manufactured their own studies and paid for them to show at the top of search results.
Oh, and they also changed the name to 'safety cameras' just to complete the propaganda circle.


Crap.

This. I've just been hit with a ticket for doing 61 in a 50 zone on a motorway. This is NOT doing 80 in a 20 outside a school. It's completely harmless. The fine is a bad joke.

So: either I pay £100 and have 3 points on my licence for 3 years, or pay £85 and have to spend three hours on a tedious speed-awareness course. The whole thing is nothing more than a revenue generator.

And I live in Wales, which has just gone 20mph on all roads that were previously 30. Sigh...

The most libertarian thought I ever had was when I realized that speeding and illegal parking were crimes actually required by the state to maintain funding. My inner pinko retorts "Fuck em, that's what they get for driving."

biscuitdough wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:22 pm This is the wrong poll.

Cars: crap

I do like my car, but…

Why does the USA continue to tolerate 40,000+ deaths related to automobiles per year??

It’s easy to say that my second statement is because of the first statement, but a helluva lot more could be done to make driving safer.

I say this after voting CRAP in this poll. I just don’t think speed cameras will change driving habits. You’d need to put them almost everywhere.

I guess we're getting them (in a few test markets) here in California: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/us/c ... meras.html

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/califor ... a/3342030/

There is a community service option for people who can't afford to pay. I'm not sure it's going to have the desired effect (speed bumps and trees and narrow streets are still preferable, imo), but it's progress.