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benadrian wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:51 pm

mdc wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 5:55 pm Boss RC-5 if you want compact, easy file track management, mountains of storage.

Yeah, RC-30 on the way, but it only accepts 44.1/16 files. How quaint!

You know, none of this would be an issue if you just moved back to L.A.

;_;

I went the MPC route for this. I'm not mad at my decision even though getting my head in the MPC-way-of-doing-things was a bit challenging for me. I know these are frequently thought of as hip-hop or remix machines but they are way, way more than this.

I'd quibble against the above suggestions of the Blackbox etc if only that for not a whole lot more, you can have a entire production suite w/ decent sounding plug-in synths, full midi control of outboard machines, even CV if you want to integrate it w/ your Eurorack noisemakers. The plug-in soft synths have been great, been using it live w/ Josh just to reduce my runs a little bit - in place of having 2 separate Minitaur and Keyboard sends to FOH, it's just one now (and being a little lazy by setting up chord pads to play while drumming instead of fingering full chords).

But the loop pedal option mentioned is certainly going to be the most cost-effective, especially if you already have one. I personally steered myself away from this route because I wanted separate click generated for in-ears as well as midi sync w/ a looper pedal...but as a bit of a digression, the click part of this could be worked around if you have stereo outs as you bounce your tracks down from the DAW, do a mono mix in one channel of the backing material & click in the other for in-ears. I did sort of a version of that w/ the 30-year old Boss DR-5 I was using prior to getting the MPC.

If I'm not mistaken the RC-30 (that's the 2-foot pedal one, yeah?) that Ben ordered can play two stereo WAVs simultaneously and has separate outs for both, so should be no problem to group stuff as needed for FOH/monitor purposes.

mdc wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:39 pm I hadn't seen that before - very cool! Looks like a good replacement for that cymatic box that no longer exists.

It’s exactly that, but it also reads 24bit 48kHz files. Plus it has all kinds of extras including a HDMI output. Also a separate headphones output, it also generates click tracks from imported wave files. I’m super happy with it. At practice I can simply edit things on the display.

benadrian wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 1:17 pm Anyway, if you had to do this, how would you perform with drum machine or drum tracks live, knowing that you'd be in places with questionable PAs and where things could get rough or damaged?

What a great question, thanks for asking. Allow me to tell my story.

benadrian wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 1:17 pm Buckle up, this is long:

Yes it will be. Apologies in advance.

Genau became a Drum Machine Band about eight years ago when our drummer quit a few weeks before a show, a show that he set up. Classy guy.

Being a couple of stand-up fellas we wanted fulfill our commitment and decided to use electronic drums. I'd messed with desktop computer sequencing for years (started with Cakewalk 3.0 and a Sound Canvas, 'sup nerd?) and had did a handful of gigs with electronic backing in former bands.

We had some decent options available, both software (Reason and Reaper with VSTs) and hardware (namely a few Electribes.) They all sounded OK and we felt confident that we'd be able to make something work. Just for kicks we fired up a wonky old Alesis SR-16 that a friend had given me.

Holy shit, we've found our new drummer.

Unfortunately I discovered that the SR-16 is not flawless when hooked via MIDI to DAW or hardware sequencer. It drops notes both recording and playback (sidebar: Tech Room, any suggestions?) But we need that cold, artificial, built-in reverb sound. So I program in the Alesis. Pain in the ass for a guy who prefers to click on the grid but so be it. Sometimes I write the parts in Reason (with a Redrum SR-16 kit) then program the drum machine by hand (it's actually pretty a pretty quick process but yeah.... I wish I could just load the file onto the drum machine.)

Live performance: Nowadays it's one song on board and a Sysex dump between songs. No memory issues. Songs with additional electronics (laptop w/ Reason) are slaved to the Alesis MIDI clock. No worries about spilled beer ruining your drum machine, everything is backed up and a new one is like $50 almost anywhere.

Recording: At least 2/3 the drums on our songs on Bandcamp are SR-16. Sometimes we did three separate tracks (kick/snare/other) but some were kick/other or one track through reverb.

I'm tired so....

TL;DR: do the drums how you used to and don't worry too much about live vs. recording.

ErikG wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:04 pm We had some decent options available, both software (Reason and Reaper with VSTs) and hardware (namely a few Electribes.) They all sounded OK and we felt confident that we'd be able to make something work. Just for kicks we fired up a wonky old Alesis SR-16 that a friend had given me.

Holy shit, we've found our new drummer.

Unfortunately I discovered that the SR-16 is not flawless when hooked via MIDI to DAW or hardware sequencer. It drops notes both recording and playback (sidebar: Tech Room, any suggestions?) But we need that cold, artificial, built-in reverb sound. So I program in the Alesis. Pain in the ass for a guy who prefers to click on the grid but so be it. Sometimes I write the parts in Reason (with a Redrum SR-16 kit) then program the drum machine by hand (it's actually pretty a pretty quick process but yeah.... I wish I could just load the file onto the drum machine.)

Live performance: Nowadays it's one song on board and a Sysex dump between songs. No memory issues. Songs with additional electronics (laptop w/ Reason) are slaved to the Alesis MIDI clock. No worries about spilled beer ruining your drum machine, everything is backed up and a new one is like $50 almost anywhere.

Yeah, the circa 1990 drum machines have that sound of low--ish res samples with effects trying SO hard to sound real, and then just never quite living up. Not long after, drum machines got all faux-analog, and that just isn't the noise rock kinda vibe. I talked about this exact same thing with Justin from Austerity Program.

I've been using the Kurt Ballou drums and man, it sounds SO good. It's so good it totally loses the drum machine mood. It just sounds like a really good recording of a precise drummer.

What do you use for Sysex dumps?

Thanks!

P.S. To top it all off, I met a super cool guy today who may want to drum with us. Fucking hell. I often think the best way to make something happen is to put a lot of work into doing the exact opposite. For instance, my wife does voiceover. A lot of the time I just leave her VO mic and headphone rig setup. Finally, A week will go by with no activity, so I'll tear don the setup to do something else in my studio. Within a day, se gets an audition or books a job. It's creepy how often this happens.

benadrian wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:26 pm

ErikG wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:04 pm We had some decent options available, both software (Reason and Reaper with VSTs) and hardware (namely a few Electribes.) They all sounded OK and we felt confident that we'd be able to make something work. Just for kicks we fired up a wonky old Alesis SR-16 that a friend had given me.

Holy shit, we've found our new drummer.

Unfortunately I discovered that the SR-16 is not flawless when hooked via MIDI to DAW or hardware sequencer. It drops notes both recording and playback (sidebar: Tech Room, any suggestions?) But we need that cold, artificial, built-in reverb sound. So I program in the Alesis. Pain in the ass for a guy who prefers to click on the grid but so be it. Sometimes I write the parts in Reason (with a Redrum SR-16 kit) then program the drum machine by hand (it's actually pretty a pretty quick process but yeah.... I wish I could just load the file onto the drum machine.)

Live performance: Nowadays it's one song on board and a Sysex dump between songs. No memory issues. Songs with additional electronics (laptop w/ Reason) are slaved to the Alesis MIDI clock. No worries about spilled beer ruining your drum machine, everything is backed up and a new one is like $50 almost anywhere.

Yeah, the circa 1990 drum machines have that sound of low--ish res samples with effects trying SO hard to sound real, and then just never quite living up. Not long after, drum machines got all faux-analog, and that just isn't the noise rock kinda vibe. I talked about this exact same thing with Justin from Austerity Program.

I've been using the Kurt Ballou drums and man, it sounds SO good. It's so good it totally loses the drum machine mood. It just sounds like a really good recording of a precise drummer.

What do you use for Sysex dumps?

Thanks!

P.S. To top it all off, I met a super cool guy today who may want to drum with us. Fucking hell. I often think the best way to make something happen is to put a lot of work into doing the exact opposite. For instance, my wife does voiceover. A lot of the time I just leave her VO mic and headphone rig setup. Finally, A week will go by with no activity, so I'll tear don the setup to do something else in my studio. Within a day, se gets an audition or books a job. It's creepy how often this happens.

Those Kurt Ballou drum demos sound really good! I need to check them out. Are you using Vol 1 or Vol 2?
I’ve been using ABBEY ROAD 70s DRUMMER in Kontakt, they sound pretty good too! I have Kontakt set up as multiple output and then render bassdrum, snare and the rest of the drums in 3 separate files which I then send to 2 mono and 1 stereo outputs of my playback device. This gives me pretty good control of the drum sound in a live situation.

bassdriver wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:06 am Those Kurt Ballou drum demos sound really good! I need to check them out. Are you using Vol 1 or Vol 2?
I’ve been using ABBEY ROAD 70s DRUMMER in Kontakt, they sound pretty good too! I have Kontakt set up as multiple output and then render bassdrum, snare and the rest of the drums in 3 separate files which I then send to 2 mono and 1 stereo outputs of my playback device. This gives me pretty good control of the drum sound in a live situation.

Volume 2. Hear it here.


I was looking for a digital 4 track that had separate outs for all channels. They don't seem to exist. It would still be good for just live balancing, but if I was going to go that distance, I'd want to offer separate feeds to FOH for theoretical shows I may or may not play.

benadrian wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:14 am

bassdriver wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:06 am Those Kurt Ballou drum demos sound really good! I need to check them out. Are you using Vol 1 or Vol 2?
I’ve been using ABBEY ROAD 70s DRUMMER in Kontakt, they sound pretty good too! I have Kontakt set up as multiple output and then render bassdrum, snare and the rest of the drums in 3 separate files which I then send to 2 mono and 1 stereo outputs of my playback device. This gives me pretty good control of the drum sound in a live situation.

Volume 2. Hear it here.


I was looking for a digital 4 track that had separate outs for all channels. They don't seem to exist. It would still be good for just live balancing, but if I was going to go that distance, I'd want to offer separate feeds to FOH for theoretical shows I may or may not play.

Ha, yeah there’s a million digital recorders with as as many inputs as you like, but always just 2 outputs. That was until I found this:

https://www.thomannmusic.ch/m_live_b.be ... gKl1vD_BwE

Will check your song when I get home, the demos of the drums were very convincing!

benadrian wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:14 am
Volume 2. Hear it here.

I'm sold!!!
fantastic songs, amazing drum sound.
do you do some sort of "humanizing" to your drum programming or do you quantize everything?