I'm down with a lot of the messages involved with Christianity and am friends with several Christians. Those that I am friendly with are utterly disgusted with what is perpetrated in the name of their beliefs.

Being a Christian is like saying you're into punk rock. Most who do so have no idea what the fuck they're talking about and those who do know are few and far between. You could go on for days discussing the atrocities committed in the name of either and also what it really means.

The poll is referring to Christianity as a "religion" and in my opinion religion involves a herd mentality and not questioning what you are told. This has lead to some fucked up things.

Christianity, as a religion, is CRAP. As a personal belief system, I think it's okay.

the seaward wrote:
Christianity, as a religion, is CRAP. As a personal belief system, I think it's okay.

You’re making the key philosophical mistake that a lot of people make when thinking about Christianity –or any theism-. You are confusing the moral philosophy of the religion with the metaphysics behind the religion. If you don’t accept the supernatural aspects then you are left with the morality that stems from it. So it is ok to say, “some of the ethics and moral philosophy that come from religions are validâ€

Gramsci wrote:If you went to the doctor and asked to see someone that studied from a 1000 year old text book you'd be considered a fruitcake. Yet we're expected to offer respect to people that believe the ideas of fanatics 3000 years ago, that didn't even know what the sun was, as the explanation for creation.

great point! And as for that Shakespeare, that fella'd never seen a single Oprah Winfrey show so who's he to write about the human condition?

Of course the science in the Bible is mambo-jehambo, I think most moderate Christians have moved on from that. Christianity is surely what you choose to take from the philosophy presented within the good book.....ergo it's still fine as reading material, whether you like the message or not.

fiery jack wrote:

Gramsci wrote:If you went to the doctor and asked to see someone that studied from a 1000 year old text book you'd be considered a fruitcake. Yet we're expected to offer respect to people that believe the ideas of fanatics 3000 years ago, that didn't even know what the sun was, as the explanation for creation.

great point! And as for that Shakespeare, that fella'd never seen a single Oprah Winfrey show so who's he to write about the human condition?

Of course the science in the Bible is mambo-jehambo, I think most moderate Christians have moved on from that. Christianity is surely what you choose to take from the philosophy presented within the good book.....ergo it's still fine as reading material, whether you like the message or not.

For me the crucial point in Gramsci's post is the idea about respect. There are specific laws (laws, for crying out loud!) protecting the "rights" of people who make this insane choice in their lives. It's crackers.

Your Shakespeare thing doesn't really work. And this forum is always my first port of call when I want "a place for reasoned debate".

Gramsci wrote:

the seaward wrote:
Christianity, as a religion, is CRAP. As a personal belief system, I think it's okay.

You’re making the key philosophical mistake that a lot of people make when thinking about Christianity –or any theism-. You are confusing the moral philosophy of the religion with the metaphysics behind the religion. If you don’t accept the supernatural aspects then you are left with the morality that stems from it. So it is ok to say, “some of the ethics and moral philosophy that come from religions are validâ€

the seaward wrote:While personally you find atheism liberating, to many the idea of no "greater cosmic purpose" is terrifying. We'll all find out sooner or later. Let's just not be dicks while we're here.

Actually as an atheist I don't expect to find out anything after my death as I will simply return to the same state as I was before I was concieved. I can't remember that and I will cease to exist after my my death. Why should anyone fear death, as you're not going to know anything about it anyway.

Embrace the void!

fiery jack wrote:
Of course the science in the Bible is mambo-jehambo, I think most moderate Christians have moved on from that. Christianity is surely what you choose to take from the philosophy presented within the good book.....ergo it's still fine as reading material, whether you like the message or not.

What? So you just pick out the bits that fit in with modern secular ideas? To me that seems pretty damn lame. Of course the Bible tells something about the human condition, humans wrote the thing!

Oh, and the only thing Oprah Winfrey is good for is making rich people feel good about being selfish.

there is far too much bullshit in christanity to vote for not crap. the thing that bugs me the most is the unability of christians (not all of them, though) to see that they absolutely CAN'T use any of religion based arguments in making any kind of desicions that will affect non-believers. like "let's ban pornography cuz the book says its wrong". or "shops should be closed on sundays cuz its a sacred day". oh yes and the abslotuely hilarious young earth/creation theory (you know, everything was created 9000 years ago, as the bible says. and they're trying to use scientific evdince to back it up... moooorons). it makes my sick in my stomach
oh, and the evangelism. if someone wants to believe that a book which is a collection of various legends, stories and laws from diffrent times collected together by a non believer 1700 years ago, is in fact the truth and comes from a higher creature (q: why do you believe bible comes from god? a: the bible says so).. well thas fine with me. people have the right to believe what they want as long as they do respect the right of other people to live they way they want to (unless it has direct effect on their lives).

morality can not be sacntioned by the law.

i have to stop before i spent 2hrs on writing pointless article on this.

emmanuelle cunt wrote:
q: why do you believe bible comes from god?
a: the bible says so

That one always gets me. It's a totally cyclical argument that only either

a: A total retard would believe

b: or someone that hasn't really put much thought into it.

Most "moderate" believers -although personally I don't think any religious faith is moderate- haven't really put any serious philosophical thought into what it is the say they believe in. If they did they'd feel a little stupid.

Gramsci wrote:What? So you just pick out the bits that fit in with modern secular ideas? To me that seems pretty damn lame.

It's a lot less lame than taking the whole lot as gospel, eh? People cherrypick the bits they want all the time, they have to because it's a mass of contradictions.

I only got involved in this because that "Christianity is a mental illness" argument pissed me off, as did the lack of tolerance for other people's viewpoints. For all I care, people can believe in Smashing Pumpkins lyrics, so long as it's not making anyone else's life difficult. Although that would be mentally ill. Oh.