Dylan wrote:

chris cutler wrote:The question for me is still, why? Why make a record? Why this kind of sound and not that kind of sound? Who and what is it for?

This is such a good question. This one is huge for me. Every single musician should have this taped to their practice space.

I think Cutler's comment was written more from a critic's/label owner's, rather than a performer's, point of view. Though he himself is a performer, this lengthy statement is mainly a critique of new "noise" music, stuff he finds boring.

It's interesting to compare this thread with another currently in action - "your definition of 'good' music." I don't think anyone on that other thread has said anything about "good" music needing to have some clear purpose in being.

Why does electronic/noise music would bring on these kinds of critiques, while rock music does not?

capnreverb wrote:Along with Univers Zero's 1313, Robert Wyatt, and Brian Eno, Henry Cow was one of the greatest "art rock" practioners. ELP and others sure ruined it for the few that were on to something.

Henry Cow = awesome.

Lobster Magnet wrote:

capnreverb wrote:Along with Univers Zero's 1313, Robert Wyatt, and Brian Eno, Henry Cow was one of the greatest "art rock" practioners. ELP and others sure ruined it for the few that were on to something.

Henry Cow = awesome.

cyan text = irritating.

Dylan wrote:Seriously,

Steve, when you wrote:So he can question every motivation and be paralyzed by doubt and fear, right?

you were trying to get me, right? I mean, when you hear "the real deal", you know they've made the same or similar bargain with their audience. Conversely, when you hear something patently false, you know that band has brokered a deal with only themselves. If we were both to speak from personal experience, I think we might come to the same conclusions about our respective musical endeavors that Mr. Cutler has reached. All of your groups (at least the ones we know about) have made that same deal with the audience, while simultaneously staying true to your own, shall we say, "vision".

I can't speak for anybody else, but when I hear music that strikes me as genuine, I get the feeling that the musician isn't taking anyone else into account, and is following his own map. I'm getting a peek at his aesthetic and his motivations as an outsider, and in this relationship I get to have my own experience.

On the contrary, the patently phony music I hear seems all too concerned with the bargain being made with the audience. Showbusiness. Concern for the formal expectations of an audience. There is a case to be made that my favorite music is being made with absolute disregard for the audience.

As I see it, any decent music will be made with attention to an internal logic (or at least a frame of mind) that the artist alone is privy to. If what Cutler is saying is that he will take his efforts seriously, and not pawn-off any trivial crap in the process, then I can respect his process and his intentions, but as an audience member, I'd prefer he didn't think about me at all.

The constant questioning of intent (implicit in the quotation you would make into a cannon of the process) can only introduce uncertainty and fear into a process that should be truly unfettered by such concerns.

Only when an artist doesn't give a shit about his audience can he be truly free, and in those moments he can enlighten me.

I know that as a musician, I don't harbor any expectation of an audience, and I certainly don't allow them to enter into the creative mindset. That's ours and ours alone. It's the only thing in my life that I allow to be completely selfish, and as such I cherish it.

Steve (and anyone else who cares enough to jump in),

I suppose I should have clarified my point a little better. I think we are generally in agreement as to what Mr. Cutler meant in his statement. I will re-post it.

"The 'deal' that I make with the public, my promise to them, is that nothing is meaningless, nothing is just there 'because'".

I would guess you make a similar deal with the people you share your music with. In other words, you don't necessarily make music just because it feels good, or because you can. You feel it has something worthwhile to say to people, and thus, you share it. Otherwise, all of our favourite records would not be records but memories. The musicians who made them would feel no need to reproduce copies for others.

A while ago, I became disenchanted with the process behind every single musical moment. I found out that there was no Santa. Everything I've heard (or seen) has some process behind it. These records or shows we love so much did not just spring up from nowhere. Then I realized that the process is just as important as the thing itself, sometimes. However, the process involves other people. In economics, the musicians would be the producers and the other people would be the consumers even if they don't consume that particular product. Their non-choice affects the outcome of the product. So, in a sense, the minute we choose to share our art with someone else, we are making that deal that says that this thing we have is not there "just because".

I'm not particularly fond of this philosophy, by the way, but it's the only one I've found to explain what it is I like about what it is I like.

Here's something form a different Cutler interview, concerning free improvisation:

Q: Has there been any particular situation that has taught you about how to be an effective improviser?

A: Maybe, but not that I can remember; there seems to be more of a cumulative effect: I make mistakes and learn from them. The more concerts I do, statistically, the more mistakes I make and the more I learn. So I can say that I learned not to be afraid of playing badly; that it's always better to take risks and fail than be safe but boring; that I always learn fast when having to negotiate unfamiliar territory or deal with disaster on the fly. One of the great aspects of improvisation is that there is an expectant public, a start time and no chance to stop to reconsider: for 50 minutes it's sink or swim. That concentrates the mind.