While I don't currently support it, inhuman or not- these fucks deserve the Death Penalty. They destroyed someone's life. I don't beleive it's inhumane or indefensible (I could think of more than one punishment along those lines), I just think it is not a stable enough system to be executing people under.

soul_rancher wrote:Most people are more likely to succumb to addiction, die in a car crash, kill themselves or die of cancer than to experience any kind of sexual abuse.

i don't know exactly where these numbers come from, but i've read that something like a third of women have experienced some kind of sexual abuse at some point... it's probably a loose definition though.

My objections to the death penalty are that it denies the chance for an offender to truly repay his debt to society, and is not an effective deterrent. It merely satisfies a lust for revenge in a quick and blunt catharsis. It achieves nothing; it creates nothing. I'm not worried whether it is humane or inhumane; I am worried that it is inhuman - animalistic.

soul_rancher wrote: It achieves nothing; it creates nothing. I'm not worried whether it is humane or inhumane; I am worried that it is inhuman - animalistic.

In cases like this I'm fine with being animalistic. Get them out of the gene pool- be done with them.

bent_christian wrote:

soul_rancher wrote: It achieves nothing; it creates nothing. I'm not worried whether it is humane or inhumane; I am worried that it is inhuman - animalistic.

In cases like this I'm fine with being animalistic. Get them out of the gene pool- be done with them.

Fair enough. Only, many of them are in the gene pool already...

...and in what other circumstances are you comfortable with abandoning reason in favour of sweeping problems away by killing people en masse?

edited abondoning to abandoning

Not to continue swinging this thread into a death penalty discussion, but I agree that these sick fucks should be fried. All too often when you read about these cases, the guys are previous offenders. Remember the Dru Sjodin case? (I guess I don't know how much national coverage there was, but it was all over here). That dude had been charged 3 previous times with rape (dating back to 1974). He finished a 23 year sentence, got out, and seven months later kidnapped, raped and killed Dru. How's that for rehabilitation?

My 0.02:

You rape/molest a child, you fucking die. No "three strikes", no "counceling"...just DEATH.

No, I'm not some idiot redneck. I have children. I used to hear/read stories about child molestors before I had kids and would say, "Man, that's horrible. How fucked." Now whenever I hear about cases like that my immediate reaction is anger followed by, "Fuck that piece of shit. Fry."

soul_rancher wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:
This got me looking at the sexual offenders in my neighborhood...man there's some sick fucks living on my block....there's a dude who lives half a block down who got arrested for taking pornographic photos of a retarded kid under 13 years old....and he looks the part too.

What, exactly, does your stereotypical 'dude who takes pornographic photos of retarded kids' look like? I was under the impression the reason this thread was started was themajormiller's disbelief in the veracity of the photo shown on the database.

Marsupialized wrote:I actually saw a picture of a weirdo kid I went to school with, a kid everyone called 'onion head' on the page. Apparantly he got into exposing himself to minors after high school....says he was arrested for masturbating in front of kids at ford city mall. Sometimes, I swear I wanna puke just because this is such a disgusting world.

Some other folks I know transform what is overtly incomprehensible, mendacious, nasty, nauseating or downright cruel into something of beauty, interest or profundity. Have you ever heard a Big Black song?

Marsupialized wrote:I could never have a kid, not that I'd ever want to...but even if I had the desire there's no way I'd bring a kid into this world...hey, guess what? Life's real fuckin' hard and every step of the way there's gonna be some sick fuck waiting in the shadows to jump out and touch your peepee...have fun!

Every step of the way, my peepee has been safe and secure. This is the great truth for most people I know. Most people are more likely to succumb to addiction, die in a car crash, kill themselves or die of cancer than to experience any kind of sexual abuse. I would think that more a case for avoiding procreation - but still a huge denial of all that is good in life.

Marsupialized wrote:What's fucked up is you can see what they did and the sentence...most of these dudes convicted of molesting kids only get probabtion. I mean, having some weed will get you put in jail but fucking a little kid will get you 6 months probabtion? I for one think child molestation and rape should be death penalty offenses, first conviction. If they are going to have the fucking death penalty, start frying up these sickos.

Let's look at some serious facts. Fistly, that in the great majority of cases of molestation or sexual abuse, the perpetrator is known to the victim, and usually the victim's family. Often it is a family member or family friend.
Secondly, it has been determined, due to the sociolegal dependence on psychiatry as a determiner of 'madness', that most sexual offenders are acting in a manner typically described as insane. (For more on an extralegal and non-psychiatric view of madness, check our Foucault's "Madness and Society".)
Thirdly, I do not condone any kind of sexual abuse or misconduct.
That said, if we are looking at why the sentences for sexual offences seem so minor, we can easily see the answer. Sexual abuse within families usually relies on a collusion between family members; a tacit understanding that a family member is 'sick'. Familial bonds are the tightest and most elastic bonds known to humanity, and the power of these bonds to transmute horror into secrets is well documented and common enough. In rare cases, entire townsfolk collude to protect 'sick' family members. Family members and even victims are unwilling to testify against their kin for many reasons ranging from fear of retribution to love of their kin.
Courts are often persuaded that the insanity inherent in sexual abusers is conditional and can be alleviated or removed. There are established psychiatric guidelines for treatment of molesters, abusers and rapists. Like all psychiatry, the results are largely empirical, based upon loose markers of success or failure, and often misleading. Not misleading enough, however, for their validity in sentencing of such offenders.

I am certainly of the opinion that sexual abuse sentences should be long-term sentences. I am generally also of the opinion that 'madness' cannot be cured. Many of these offenders do not believe in any way that what they are doing is wrong in the same way that many Islamic families do not believe stoning an unfaithful wife to death is wrong. But I do not discount the possibilities that offenders can be, and have been 'rehabilitated' and have not reoffended. The death penalty is inhuman, violent and indefensible in this day and age, and is tantamount to a lack of discipline and intellect.

No offence intended to you at all Marsupialized in my dissection of your initial post.

For me to be offended, what you said would have to make sense and have some sort of valid point. I can't find either in much of what you are saying here. Ok, first...

"Some other folks I know transform what is overtly incomprehensible, mendacious, nasty, nauseating or downright cruel into something of beauty, interest or profundity. Have you ever heard a Big Black song?"

What the fuck does this even mean? So I should be glad little kids are being raped and molested because it'll give me something to write a song about? Sorry, people fucking little kids is not beautiful or profound in any way. It's vile.

"Every step of the way, my peepee has been safe and secure. This is the great truth for most people I know. Most people are more likely to succumb to addiction, die in a car crash, kill themselves or die of cancer than to experience any kind of sexual abuse. I would think that more a case for avoiding procreation - but still a huge denial of all that is good in life."

You are just plain wrong, child abuse is an epidemic. You are delusional if you really believe what you are saying here. Just because nobody touched YOURS dosen't mean there it isn't happening. The reason it's true for most of the people you know is because it's usually something people keep to themselves, who goes around saying "Let me tell you about when my uncle jerked off on my head when I was 6, it's a great story'? People never report it to begin with half the time, it's shameful and it fucks you all up. Sexual abuse of children is a MAJOR problem, THE major problem on this earth if you ask me. People like you who dismiss it as bullshit and not a big deal are doing more harm then you could ever imagine. I can't think of one girl I know who hasn't been molested or raped or fucked with sexually in some way at least once during the course of her life. I think that's fucking disgusting.

It's a proven fact these people cannot be 'rehabilitated'. Look at the return rate back to prison for violent sexual offenders, hovering around 75 percent from the page I'm looking at. Even if they could, why should one second of time or effort or resources be used trying to? If I saw a job opening where all day every day I personally would kill child molesters and rapists I would take that fucking job. I would love going into work every day. I would just kill kill kill. You take the job 'rehabilitating' them you can sit and hold hands and sing songs, and when you see them walk out of jail you can feel good knowing they are going to go right out and fuck them some more little kids.

How about you sit in a room with a bunch of kids and tell them exactally why the guy who dragged them in a back room and fucked them ruined their life deserves to be walking the streets? Sit with a bunch of women who have been raped and tell them it would be wrong to kill the guy who did it to them, I bet they wouldn't wanna hear one second of that bullshit.
If someone raped a female I was close to, or molested a child in my family you better fucking believe if I have half a chance I'll kill that fucker in the most gruesome way possible. How could you not?

Ok, there's that guy in Canada a few years back he was working as a babysitter...turns out he was fucking the kids. He had videos of himself fucking like 12 different babies all under 3 years old. He was selling the videos on the internet for like, 2 grand a piece. Now, tell me why he dosen't deserve a quick bullet to the back of the head and that's that, noone will ever have to even think about him again? Why should one second of time be devoted to this piece of shit? Because it's wrong to kill people? I'm sorry, sometimes it's very right to kill someone. Human beings can do things so vile, it would be very wrong NOT to take them off this earth. Imagine it was your baby this guy was fucking, videotaping and making thousands of dollars off of? I bet you'd change your tune real fast. [/quote]

soul_rancher wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:
This got me looking at the sexual offenders in my neighborhood...man there's some sick fucks living on my block....there's a dude who lives half a block down who got arrested for taking pornographic photos of a retarded kid under 13 years old....and he looks the part too.

What, exactly, does your stereotypical 'dude who takes pornographic photos of retarded kids' look like? I was under the impression the reason this thread was started was themajormiller's disbelief in the veracity of the photo shown on the database.

Marsupialized wrote:I actually saw a picture of a weirdo kid I went to school with, a kid everyone called 'onion head' on the page. Apparantly he got into exposing himself to minors after high school....says he was arrested for masturbating in front of kids at ford city mall. Sometimes, I swear I wanna puke just because this is such a disgusting world.

Some other folks I know transform what is overtly incomprehensible, mendacious, nasty, nauseating or downright cruel into something of beauty, interest or profundity. Have you ever heard a Big Black song?

Marsupialized wrote:I could never have a kid, not that I'd ever want to...but even if I had the desire there's no way I'd bring a kid into this world...hey, guess what? Life's real fuckin' hard and every step of the way there's gonna be some sick fuck waiting in the shadows to jump out and touch your peepee...have fun!

Every step of the way, my peepee has been safe and secure. This is the great truth for most people I know. Most people are more likely to succumb to addiction, die in a car crash, kill themselves or die of cancer than to experience any kind of sexual abuse. I would think that more a case for avoiding procreation - but still a huge denial of all that is good in life.

Marsupialized wrote:What's fucked up is you can see what they did and the sentence...most of these dudes convicted of molesting kids only get probabtion. I mean, having some weed will get you put in jail but fucking a little kid will get you 6 months probabtion? I for one think child molestation and rape should be death penalty offenses, first conviction. If they are going to have the fucking death penalty, start frying up these sickos.

Let's look at some serious facts. Fistly, that in the great majority of cases of molestation or sexual abuse, the perpetrator is known to the victim, and usually the victim's family. Often it is a family member or family friend.
Secondly, it has been determined, due to the sociolegal dependence on psychiatry as a determiner of 'madness', that most sexual offenders are acting in a manner typically described as insane. (For more on an extralegal and non-psychiatric view of madness, check our Foucault's "Madness and Society".)
Thirdly, I do not condone any kind of sexual abuse or misconduct.
That said, if we are looking at why the sentences for sexual offences seem so minor, we can easily see the answer. Sexual abuse within families usually relies on a collusion between family members; a tacit understanding that a family member is 'sick'. Familial bonds are the tightest and most elastic bonds known to humanity, and the power of these bonds to transmute horror into secrets is well documented and common enough. In rare cases, entire townsfolk collude to protect 'sick' family members. Family members and even victims are unwilling to testify against their kin for many reasons ranging from fear of retribution to love of their kin.
Courts are often persuaded that the insanity inherent in sexual abusers is conditional and can be alleviated or removed. There are established psychiatric guidelines for treatment of molesters, abusers and rapists. Like all psychiatry, the results are largely empirical, based upon loose markers of success or failure, and often misleading. Not misleading enough, however, for their validity in sentencing of such offenders.

I am certainly of the opinion that sexual abuse sentences should be long-term sentences. I am generally also of the opinion that 'madness' cannot be cured. Many of these offenders do not believe in any way that what they are doing is wrong in the same way that many Islamic families do not believe stoning an unfaithful wife to death is wrong. But I do not discount the possibilities that offenders can be, and have been 'rehabilitated' and have not reoffended. The death penalty is inhuman, violent and indefensible in this day and age, and is tantamount to a lack of discipline and intellect.

No offence intended to you at all Marsupialized in my dissection of your initial post.

For me to be offended, what you said would have to make sense and have some sort of valid point. I can't find either in much of what you are saying here. Ok, first...

"Some other folks I know transform what is overtly incomprehensible, mendacious, nasty, nauseating or downright cruel into something of beauty, interest or profundity. Have you ever heard a Big Black song?"

What the fuck does this even mean? So I should be glad little kids are being raped and molested because it'll give me something to write a song about? Sorry, people fucking little kids is not beautiful or profound in any way. It's vile.

"Every step of the way, my peepee has been safe and secure. This is the great truth for most people I know. Most people are more likely to succumb to addiction, die in a car crash, kill themselves or die of cancer than to experience any kind of sexual abuse. I would think that more a case for avoiding procreation - but still a huge denial of all that is good in life."

You are just plain wrong, child abuse is an epidemic. You are delusional if you really believe what you are saying here. Just because nobody touched YOURS dosen't mean there it isn't happening. The reason it's true for most of the people you know is because it's usually something people keep to themselves, who goes around saying "Let me tell you about when my uncle jerked off on my head when I was 6, it's a great story'? People never report it to begin with half the time, it's shameful and it fucks you all up. Sexual abuse of children is a MAJOR problem, THE major problem on this earth if you ask me. People like you who dismiss it as bullshit and not a big deal are doing more harm then you could ever imagine. I can't think of one girl I know who hasn't been molested or raped or fucked with sexually in some way at least once during the course of her life. I think that's fucking disgusting.

It's a proven fact these people cannot be 'rehabilitated'. Look at the return rate back to prison for violent sexual offenders, hovering around 75 percent from the page I'm looking at. Even if they could, why should one second of time or effort or resources be used trying to? If I saw a job opening where all day every day I personally would kill child molesters and rapists I would take that fucking job. I would love going into work every day. I would just kill kill kill. You take the job 'rehabilitating' them you can sit and hold hands and sing songs, and when you see them walk out of jail you can feel good knowing they are going to go right out and fuck them some more little kids.

How about you sit in a room with a bunch of kids and tell them exactally why the guy who dragged them in a back room and fucked them ruined their life deserves to be walking the streets? Sit with a bunch of women who have been raped and tell them it would be wrong to kill the guy who did it to them, I bet they wouldn't wanna hear one second of that bullshit.
If someone raped a female I was close to, or molested a child in my family you better fucking believe if I have half a chance I'll kill that fucker in the most gruesome way possible. How could you not?

Ok, there's that guy in Canada a few years back he was working as a babysitter...turns out he was fucking the kids. He had videos of himself fucking like 12 different babies all under 3 years old. He was selling the videos on the internet for like, 2 grand a piece. Now, tell me why he dosen't deserve a quick bullet to the back of the head and that's that, noone will ever have to even think about him again? Why should one second of time be devoted to this piece of shit? Because it's wrong to kill people? I'm sorry, sometimes it's very right to kill someone. Human beings can do things so vile, it would be very wrong NOT to take them off this earth. Imagine it was your baby this guy was fucking, videotaping and making thousands of dollars off of? I bet you'd change your tune real fast. [/quote]