kerble wrote:why is "the Jew" a Nazi in the comic? It doesn't even make sense.

I think someone made a mistake and put a swastika on his arm.

I don't think the swastika should be there.

I had a little "proud to be an American" moment this morning when I heard that a French paper got permission from the government to reprint the cartoons in question. Our country may be getting more fucked by the day, with more than our share of religious fanatics and craven newspapermen, and government butting in where it shouldn't, but I think we're a long way off from the day when a newspaper has to ask the government for permission to print a cartoon.

"Proud to be an American" moments. They get harder to find every day.

Tom wrote:

kerble wrote:why is "the Jew" a Nazi in the comic? It doesn't even make sense.

I think someone made a mistake and put a swastika on his arm.

I don't think the swastika should be there.

and the "ambient swastikas" in the background?

Linus Van Pelt wrote:I had a little "proud to be an American" moment this morning when I heard that a French paper got permission from the government to reprint the cartoons in question. Our country may be getting more fucked by the day, with more than our share of religious fanatics and craven newspapermen, and government butting in where it shouldn't, but I think we're a long way off from the day when a newspaper has to ask the government for permission to print a cartoon.

"Proud to be an American" moments. They get harder to find every day.

No, no, no. Some Muslim groups tried to get court injunction, not the French government, the courts told them to go to hell.

But please, continue with national pride.

kerble wrote:why is "the Jew" a Nazi in the comic? It doesn't even make sense.

Ehe. Sense. . .


(from the Arab News according to Gramsci's link)

There is a coherent, if disgustingly represented, logic to the 'Nazi-Zionist' thing. Ethnic nationalism, Jewish lebensraum, entitlement and identity-formation based on past injustices, etc. . .



Jacqueline Rose is maybe better on this than the above cartoon from Oman's Al-Watan.

[quote="Jacqueline Rose"]Jacqueline Rose: I do believe, and David Grossman has analysed this more fully than anybody, that the consequence of the shame at the passivity felt by the Jews in the face of their Nazi oppressor has been a hardening and militarisation of their identity which is indeed explicable in terms of Jewish history. On this point, some of my critics should revisit Freud's concept of over-determination, because it is perfectly possible to have both a concrete reason for something and other, less tangible, reasons as well.


But that rigidification of identity which the state justifies in terms of such a history, ensures that every catastrophe that happens to Israel becomes a confirmation of its view of itself. It leads to a fortification of the soul. This distressing overlap between the need to feel safe as a nation and the need to believe in yourself takes on the form of a repetition of trauma.


Here you really need a psychoanalytic distinction. Israel is now the fourth most militarily powerful nation in the world. It is a nuclear power. It is not in danger. The fear that Israel will be destroyed is groundless. But that does not mean that it isn't real. The fear is real and it is understandable. This is the difficult territory: you have to say both things at once. But, as I said earlier, when the fear becomes an identity that justifies itself by a violence that cannot acknowledge itself as violence, something has gone terribly wrong.


The best example in my book is the commandant in Gaza who steels himself in the battle against Palestinian children by remembering as he says, "the flames of the Holocaust

clocker bob wrote:It's pretty transparent ( at least to me ) that these protests are less about opposing depictions of Mohammed than they are about the adrenalin rush that comes from joining a gang and using that power to make others do what you say.

It's about making small people feel big. And I have the same opinion of every other organized religious witch hunt on free speech or free media. All the evangelical crackpots in America are just as sickening - these are weak people who can't grasp the concept that the world was made for all types, not just their clones and fellow lemmings.

I mean really, god damn all non-atheists who try to police those outside their flock. Police your followers, they're the ones who signed up.

Maybe I just don't get it, but if there is a rule in the Koran not to draw pictures of the prophet, then isn't that a Muslim-only rule?

Thank you very Goddamned much... Beautifully stated.

Andrew L. wrote:

kerble wrote:why is "the Jew" a Nazi in the comic? It doesn't even make sense.

Ehe. Sense. . .

(from the Arab News according to Gramsci's link)

There is a coherent, if disgustingly represented, logic to the 'Nazi-Zionist' thing. Ethnic nationalism, Jewish lebensraum, entitlement and identity-formation based on past injustices, etc. . .

Jacqueline Rose is maybe better on this than the above cartoon from Oman's Al-Watan.

Jacqueline Rose wrote:Jacqueline Rose: I do believe, and David Grossman has analysed this more fully than anybody, that the consequence of the shame at the passivity felt by the Jews in the face of their Nazi oppressor has been a hardening and militarisation of their identity which is indeed explicable in terms of Jewish history. On this point, some of my critics should revisit Freud's concept of over-determination, because it is perfectly possible to have both a concrete reason for something and other, less tangible, reasons as well.


But that rigidification of identity which the state justifies in terms of such a history, ensures that every catastrophe that happens to Israel becomes a confirmation of its view of itself. It leads to a fortification of the soul. This distressing overlap between the need to feel safe as a nation and the need to believe in yourself takes on the form of a repetition of trauma.


Here you really need a psychoanalytic distinction. Israel is now the fourth most militarily powerful nation in the world. It is a nuclear power. It is not in danger. The fear that Israel will be destroyed is groundless. But that does not mean that it isn't real. The fear is real and it is understandable. This is the difficult territory: you have to say both things at once. But, as I said earlier, when the fear becomes an identity that justifies itself by a violence that cannot acknowledge itself as violence, something has gone terribly wrong.


The best example in my book is the commandant in Gaza who steels himself in the battle against Palestinian children by remembering as he says, "the flames of the Holocaust?". This fortress mentality that Israel cannot relinquish means that it cannot see itself as the agent of violence. That is one of the effects of trauma: you can't then see what you are capable of doing. You are always repeating a situation in which you are threatened and potentially destroyed.

Ah, national pride.

Fuck it, says I.

Thank you for you Andrew.

Please, let's not "Israel" the thread.

That second cartoon there, the swastika is on a sword that is sticking into the Jew. That doesn't seem to be equating Zionism with Nazism to me. Not that the cartoon isn't offensive, but it's not an example of a Jews=Nazis cartoon.

Gramsci wrote:No, no, no. Some Muslim groups tried to get court injunction, not the French government, the courts told them to go to hell.

The way I understood it was that the newspapers went to the courts to get permission. I may have gotten it wrong. I'll try to find a source, but if you could post one it would save time.

But please, continue with national pride.

Less of a "national pride" than a "brief respite from national shame," I guess. But I'll enjoy whatever it is with your blessing.

Happy belated Waitangi day!

kerble wrote:

Tom wrote:

kerble wrote:why is "the Jew" a Nazi in the comic? It doesn't even make sense.

I think someone made a mistake and put a swastika on his arm.

I don't think the swastika should be there.

and the "ambient swastikas" in the background?

Those are there for ambience.