Cranius wrote:

Champion Rabbit wrote:

Cranius wrote:Champion Rabbit I think it would help if you made a clear distinction between child-like and childish.

For example: Carl Orff's Musica Poetica is child-like and not childish.

You then might redeem yourself from arguing like a log of shit.

I think I have been VERY clear about the fact that I consider a child's art to be of no lesser potential value than an adult's.

I'm uncertain as to why one might choose to claim that I stated otherwise?

Yeah but I wanted to use piece of classical music, by way of analogy, to show that it is not only rock that can appear reductive, simplistic or unsophisticated. Remember there was a time when black music was referred to as 'Race Records'. So you have to be careful when you say one artform is superior to another.

At no point have I stated that one artform is superior to another.

This thread has turned all straw-man.

Funny stuff.

Rotten Tanx wrote:

Sorry about the log of shit, I was making a point.

Oh boy, I've said that before.

In some threads, the peanut gallery remarks get more of a laugh out of me than the content. In this thread we are running about 50/50, although I'm sure I am throwing the average off.

That is to say, "hahahahha." Please, carry on.

Champion Rabbit wrote:At no point have I stated that one artform is superior to another.

So...

Champion Rabbit wrote:Rock music is less sophisticated, developed and demanding than both jazz and formal orchestral music; I would be fascinated to hear an argument that successfully countered that claim.

...was posted by some other rabbit.

ironyengine wrote:"hahahahha."

Cranius wrote:

Champion Rabbit wrote:At no point have I stated that one artform is superior to another.

So...

Rock music is less sophisticated, developed and demanding than both jazz and formal orchestral music; I would be fascinated to hear an argument that successfully countered that claim.

...was posted by some other rabbit.

ironyengine wrote:"hahahahha."

I'm not seeing the word 'superior' in there.

I see the words 'sophisticated', 'developed' and 'demanding'.

Lasagne is more 'sophisticated', 'developed' and 'demanding' than steak and potatoes.

Is it superior?

Attack of the straw-man!!

Champion Rabbit wrote:Lasagne is more 'sophisticated', 'developed' and 'demanding' than steak and potatoes.

It depends wether you are Irish or Italian.

Cranius wrote:

Champion Rabbit wrote:Lasagne is more 'sophisticated', 'developed' and 'demanding' than steak and potatoes.

It depends wether you are Irish or Italian.

My irish wife prefers lasagne.

Cranius wrote:

Champion Rabbit wrote:Lasagne is more 'sophisticated', 'developed' and 'demanding' than steak and potatoes.

It depends wether you are Irish or Italian.

I was about to take issue with that one myself, and on the behalf of Lee Ving. HEY! HEY! HEY! MEATANDPOTATOES HEY!

you said:

1. I hear 'left-field' bands every day; it's rare to hear anything much of interest. Sure there are great bands around, but fewer truly seminal bands than in the 80s (for example). Why? Because (as much as we all pretend it isn't the case) only so many songs can be sung with two lips, two lungs and one tongue. Or more accurately two guitars, bass and drums.



I disagree with this. Like they say, you could play all your life and never exhaust the possibilities of what can be done on an acoustic guitar, let alone in the 4 piece rock band you describe. Though a lot of possibilities aren't much fun to listen to, the possibilities are endless. A lot of bands now seem preoccupied with recreating the music of the past rather than doing their own music, but that doesn't mean we should all give up and join orchestras.

I guess my point was that people just kind of accept classical as more serious than rock because it's older, approved by the conservative elements of the culture, and seemingly more difficult and therefore 'better'. I think that point of view is based on a misunderstanding of rock music. Also, I don't think the technical aspects of art are what's most important. I brought up Stravinsky in part to point out that some of the stuff that's part of the canon now was once controversial. I like it that something can exist outside of, or in opposition to, that canon.

Still, if you recommend some new orchestral music, I will give it a listen.

Champion Rabbit, you call classical & jazz music more sophisticated, developed, and demanding than rock music, and you equate rock music with child's art. I think you mean it when you say that you love rock music and that you don't think either form of music is better or worse than the other; but it's hard to know that, based on everything else you say.

Also - for me, referring to "classical and jazz" as some kind of genre doesn't fly. I don't know much, but I'm pretty sure a jazz quartet is closer to a rock quartet than it is to a string quartet. A Love Supreme is closer in spirit to Marquee Moon than it is to Beethoven's 9th.

Michael H wrote:Neurosis fiercely slayed my face at North Six after Thanksgiving. I actually told the drummer that after their show!

I was really looking forward to that show, and it ended up being the second performance I have ever walked out of. Unfortunate.