I've been watching the modeler world expand from up close. There are a number of factors that are causing big shifts in guitar gear.
First off, the normalization of playing with backing tracks. Also, a lot of younger bands are incorporating a higher percentage of electronics, samplers, synths, and Ableton style pad-playing. It used to be that if a band had synth, there was a big hassle made to bring the synths up to the levels of the rest of the band. Now, it seems much more common for the whole band to come down to the level of the electronics and tracks, and in most cases, that means the capability of the PA in venues and practice spaces. It seems like guitar for bands that don't have some kind of loud-rock-heritage is as follows: a crazy pedalboard into a smaller combo, or some kind of modeling setup.
Additionally, a lot of younger guitar players are inspired by guitarists that are popular on the internet; bedroom players, technicians, and people making solo songs one at a time. In these cases, their heroes are using modelers or plug ins. They're not developing their style with a live band and a big amp in a practice space. An "amp" is more of a tone shaping effect than a way to be heard in the physical world.
So, the concept that a guitar into a loud tube amp is "more authentic" is getting passed on less and less. Guitarists are enjoying how they fit into the band as more of a puzzle piece and less as the dominant sound. It pretty cool to witness, and can make the live show experience much more pleasant in a lot of cases.
Personal sidebar: My band Tiny Peloton was doing the modeler thing when we were active. When we played line, we just brought two powered PA speakers for our on-stage sound. This was nice because we both played guitar and bass, so we didn't need to swap sides of the stage or bring two rigs. We just used amp models, cab models, ran an XLR to FOH, and ran a 1/4" to a small PA speaker. It did not feel as cool on stage as having big amps, but at every show we got multiple comments that it sounded really great in the room.
Re: Amp Sims, Modelers, and IRs
102I concur with all this. I work with a bunch of "kids" (in their late 20's early 30's) and not a single one of them give a flying fuck about real amps. Most of them do not even own a real amp other than a little practice amp and they all have modelers like a Helix or a Neural or in MOST cases, are just using the HiZ of a Behringer IO into Macbook plugged into the PA or a powered monitor of some kind. Their effects are all automated to a click and in every case, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, have drummers that play to clicks and backing tracks. It's pretty fucking boring music for something so complexly put together. THey also almost never play live accept on Twitch from their living rooms. Everything looks like a Tiny Desk show. It's really getting weird out there.benadrian wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2024 3:45 pm I've been watching the modeler world expand from up close. There are a number of factors that are causing big shifts in guitar gear.
First off, the normalization of playing with backing tracks. Also, a lot of younger bands are incorporating a higher percentage of electronics, samplers, synths, and Ableton style pad-playing. It used to be that if a band had synth, there was a big hassle made to bring the synths up to the levels of the rest of the band. Now, it seems much more common for the whole band to come down to the level of the electronics and tracks, and in most cases, that means the capability of the PA in venues and practice spaces. It seems like guitar for bands that don't have some kind of loud-rock-heritage is as follows: a crazy pedalboard into a smaller combo, or some kind of modeling setup.
Additionally, a lot of younger guitar players are inspired by guitarists that are popular on the internet; bedroom players, technicians, and people making solo songs one at a time. In these cases, their heroes are using modelers or plug ins. They're not developing their style with a live band and a big amp in a practice space. An "amp" is more of a tone shaping effect than a way to be heard in the physical world.
So, the concept that a guitar into a loud tube amp is "more authentic" is getting passed on less and less. Guitarists are enjoying how they fit into the band as more of a puzzle piece and less as the dominant sound. It pretty cool to witness, and can make the live show experience much more pleasant in a lot of cases.
Personal sidebar: My band Tiny Peloton was doing the modeler thing when we were active. When we played line, we just brought two powered PA speakers for our on-stage sound. This was nice because we both played guitar and bass, so we didn't need to swap sides of the stage or bring two rigs. We just used amp models, cab models, ran an XLR to FOH, and ran a 1/4" to a small PA speaker. It did not feel as cool on stage as having big amps, but at every show we got multiple comments that it sounded really great in the room.
I'll add that the modelers really sound good these days, so I kinda get it.
Re: Amp Sims, Modelers, and IRs
103I get all of that, but the click track part. Why does one need a click track live? It always makes the music feel dead. You need to be extra special talented to play music live with a click track and make it feel alive.
Re: Amp Sims, Modelers, and IRs
104I think it's because a lot of modern bands have tracks playing in Logic or Ableton. In many cases, these sessions are also sending out midi changes to change guitar presets, and/or cue lighting/video stuff.cakes wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2024 4:26 pm I get all of that, but the click track part. Why does one need a click track live? It always makes the music feel dead. You need to be extra special talented to play music live with a click track and make it feel alive.
My friend dragged me to a tech-death-metal show about a year ago. Small all-ages venue with a good PA. Every band had a laptop and some kind of tracks being played, so every drummer has to play to the tracks. Some of them has synched lighting, which seemed silly. The most ridiculous thing I saw was having the double kick on the backing track, and the drummer just playing the "arm parts" during the extreme blast beat sections.
Re: Amp Sims, Modelers, and IRs
105Because all their Effects and amp changes are automated to a timeline in Logic. One dude I work with has multiple camera angles and lighting all sync'd to his backing projects. It really is impressive how much goes into it. I get it from deep nerd perspective too. He will play alone or with up to 4 or 5 players depending on who can show up, everything is automated. He has a fucking server rack and like 5 computers running everything through VMix. Kids are weird these days and though I do not want it, it gets a thumbs up from me.cakes wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2024 4:26 pm I get all of that, but the click track part. Why does one need a click track live?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-2Oodo-CIE
Just jump around and look at this mess. It's amazing.
Re: Amp Sims, Modelers, and IRs
106I think I’ll maybe stay home and wait for the inevitable pendulum swing backlash to this
Re: Amp Sims, Modelers, and IRs
107Is that intro actually what I think that it is?Kniferide wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2024 4:36 pmBecause all their Effects and amp changes are automated to a timeline in Logic. One dude I work with has multiple camera angles and lighting all sync'd to his backing projects. It really is impressive how much goes into it. I get it from deep nerd perspective too. He will play alone or with up to 4 or 5 players depending on who can show up, everything is automated. He has a fucking server rack and like 5 computers running everything through VMix. Kids are weird these days and though I do not want it, it gets a thumbs up from me.cakes wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2024 4:26 pm I get all of that, but the click track part. Why does one need a click track live?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-2Oodo-CIE
Just jump around and look at this mess. It's amazing.
Re: Amp Sims, Modelers, and IRs
108It seems to just suck all the soul out of the music, but what do I know?Kniferide wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2024 4:36 pmBecause all their Effects and amp changes are automated to a timeline in Logic. One dude I work with has multiple camera angles and lighting all sync'd to his backing projects. It really is impressive how much goes into it. I get it from deep nerd perspective too. He will play alone or with up to 4 or 5 players depending on who can show up, everything is automated. He has a fucking server rack and like 5 computers running everything through VMix. Kids are weird these days and though I do not want it, it gets a thumbs up from me.cakes wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2024 4:26 pm I get all of that, but the click track part. Why does one need a click track live?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-2Oodo-CIE
Just jump around and look at this mess. It's amazing.
Re: Amp Sims, Modelers, and IRs
109If you think it's video game music, yeah. Zelda I think. He is a huge nerd in all the best ways.numberthirty wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2024 3:07 amIs that intro actually what I think that it is?Kniferide wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2024 4:36 pmBecause all their Effects and amp changes are automated to a timeline in Logic. One dude I work with has multiple camera angles and lighting all sync'd to his backing projects. It really is impressive how much goes into it. I get it from deep nerd perspective too. He will play alone or with up to 4 or 5 players depending on who can show up, everything is automated. He has a fucking server rack and like 5 computers running everything through VMix. Kids are weird these days and though I do not want it, it gets a thumbs up from me.cakes wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2024 4:26 pm I get all of that, but the click track part. Why does one need a click track live?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-2Oodo-CIE
Just jump around and look at this mess. It's amazing.
Re: Amp Sims, Modelers, and IRs
110I kind of agree. There is an expectation that presentation is cranked up for streaming platforms and tik tok and shit, but it doesn't read as "live music" to me. Every sound source is digital. Guitars, keys, drums... all of it, so outside of the headphone mix the room is silent. Doesn't work for me, but they have a good time. The main guy is a AV systems engineer and kinda a savant at that. His reaper Project for these streams is close to 200 tracks because the lights, camera changes... everything is programed in Midi. For him building it and it working at all is the excitement. I get it from that perspective. It is a weird shift though. 3 sweaty dudes drinking PBR and banging away at riffs in a tiny hot closet space in a warehouse somewhere doesn't seem to have the appeal that it used to. To each his own I guess.cakes wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2024 9:20 am
It seems to just suck all the soul out of the music, but what do I know?