I think the only real help our governments can provide now is to fulfil the promise of refuge, though this is likely too late for many.

This Guardian piece, postulating why the Afghan army seemed to evaporate so quickly, demonstrates that bad news is handled in a manner familiar to those who have worked in large corporations.

The Guardian wrote: The Sigar report also lambasted the tendency for politicians and senior military to look for good news. It says there is a “natural desire for good news to pass on up the chain of command”.

“In the words of one former senior military official: ‘As intelligence makes its way up higher, it gets consolidated and watered down; it gets politicised. It gets politicked because once policymakers get their hands on it, and frankly, once operational commanders get their hands on it, they put their twist on it.

“Operational commanders, state department policymakers and Department of Defense policymakers are going to be inherently rosy in their assessments. They will be unaccepting of hard-hitting intelligence.’”

^ Yeah I wonder if housing folks in Qatar is a worthy and desirable compensation.

I've heard of interpreters waiting for approval for US citizenship for ages. I feel like we need to set those folks up here if they want to come.

kokorodoko wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:57 pm

kicker_of_elves wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:20 pm

losthighway wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:50 am
- He's been willing to take the inevitable backlash by pulling out of Afghanistan. Trump (rightly gasp) talked about doing it, but whoever finishes the exit is forever on the line for any bad thing the Taliban ever does, which shows political courage.

This genuinely worries me. The US presence in Afghanistan feels like the closest thing to a stabilizing presence this region has seen since 1989. The local economy built up around Bagram AF Base is going to collapse with the departure of US troops, and the potential for chaos, violence, turbulence and despotic power grabs is already unfolding. It's always been a no-win situation, and I'm pretty far from anything remotely hawk-like in my take on involvement in foreign affairs, but it's arguable that life for the average person in Afghanistan just got measurably worse.

This was my exact thought hearing about this. Well except that I know fuck all about the concrete situation - there could be arguments for why the US military remaining doesn't help things and no improvement of conditions is in sight, for instance - but when the Taliban are retaking territory, isn't that precisely when they would be of some use? Is it certain that the Afghan government can hold their own? Imagine if the Taliban got back in power and it's like cool, back where we were 20 years ago, except the country is ravaged. What a nice message to the Afghan people that would be. And from a US geopolitical standpoint, now China is waiting to fill the space, no doubt with extensive reconstruction projects (they're already having talks).

I was reminded of what Yanis Varoufakis said when he explained why he wanted the EU to remain, despite all the shit that had been heaped upon Greece; that breaking up the union now would not make things as they would have been had the union never existed in the first place. I'm thinking along the same lines in this case.

So I'm open to having my mind changed but it just sounded like a terrible idea at the outset. I sincerely hope it didn't have anything to do with some idea of "we gotta bring the troops home" or "the war is unpopular" or whatever.

Well, that escalated quickly.

sparky wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:37 pm the tens of billions spent on this twenty-year… what? Occupation, expedition, experiment?

Trillions.

Another perspective from a US veteran of Afghanistan. The first half in particular (focusing more on Afghanistan and less on the US) is interesting.

brephophagist wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:47 am Another perspective from a US veteran of Afghanistan. The first half in particular (focusing more on Afghanistan and less on the US) is interesting.

Great piece.

Anyone know a good, succinct write up on just how horse-shit this Andrew Yang guy is?

I somehow have a few friends (one person I kinda keep up with; I don't have friends anymore) who are still excited over this guy. He's not serious. All he has to sell is ego and a veneer and he'll apparently go anywhere to sell it. Anyway, a smart, accessible article would be nice to reference. Good ones on how horrible Elon Musk is are also welcome. I don't have the energy to write things like this myself anymore.

VS you are eloquent and have been a valuable contributer. this last post worries me though; you want someone to find you an echo chamber.

also the premise that one with political aspirations should be taken at face value is generally erroneous

VaticanShotglass wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:35 am Anyone know a good, succinct write up on just how horse-shit this Andrew Yang guy is?

I somehow have a few friends (one person I kinda keep up with; I don't have friends anymore) who are still excited over this guy. He's not serious. All he has to sell is ego and a veneer and he'll apparently go anywhere to sell it. Anyway, a smart, accessible article would be nice to reference. Good ones on how horrible Elon Musk is are also welcome. I don't have the energy to write things like this myself anymore.

None of these is definitive, but all are damning in their own way.
https://newrepublic.com/article/162060/ ... politician

https://theoutline.com/post/8585/andrew ... utor_pages

https://thebaffler.com/latest/andrew-ya ... le-simpson

scrotescape wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:02 am VS you are eloquent and have been a valuable contributer. this last post worries me though; you want someone to find you an echo chamber.

also the premise that one with political aspirations should be taken at face value is generally erroneous

Oh, I'll welcome counter positions too. So, I don't like Yang. I have a lot of reasons and criticisms. If I had the time, I'd love to have a real conversation with my friend about it. In passing I mentioned a little bit of it to her in passing, but I am just too swamped and tired to write an essay's worth of material atm. So, I thought it would be nice to have some short reading to offer to convey what I'm concerned about that is written more thoughtfully than I can manage at the moment. My friends and I recommend articles to each other all the time, though I don't know one on this topic as I've formed my thoughts from this and that over the span of two years. I don't think that is unreasonable.

She has since mentioned to me what she likes about the guy, and some of it sounds like good things to like should I think Yang would actually have the effect she thinks. Other stuff is based on things we have very different opinions about. She is impressed by the whole techno-elite, smarter, kinder corporate leadership. I am not. Also, she like dorks, and I don't think this particular dork should have very much power. She's also one of those folks who find T. Gabbard compelling. I dunno. This is a very cordial back and forth, btw. Been chatting casually about stuff like this off and on for ten years now. Nice lady, lots of laughs, solid bud back in college.

Clyde wrote: None of these is definitive, but all are damning in their own way.
https://newrepublic.com/article/162060/ ... politician

https://theoutline.com/post/8585/andrew ... utor_pages

https://thebaffler.com/latest/andrew-ya ... le-simpson

Thanks. I'll have a look see.

As for echo chambers, it would be neat to hear my actual ideas expressed out there somewhere sometimes, but it sure doesn't happen much. Actually, my thoughts on political matters are a bit amorphous as I find the language of politics very alien and difficult, and I hesitate to voice ideas in that language beyond specific criticisms for that reason. I experience such matter far more from a pragmatic and moral perspective than is usually favored in politics talk. But even I can see tech-narcissists as dangerous false saviors.

Jesus fucking christ can we just not have this thread for fucks sake.