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Tory Green Paper: " Work For Welfare"

131
Rick Reuben wrote:etc


My yearly income that I quoted includes all benefits paid to me. In the case of JSA it's nil because I am employed part-time. Our government no longer assists people who wish to start their own business - both in terms of advice or in terms of financial assistance/incentive. The only way to get this help is to go through a programme like the Princes' Trust (for under 30s only) or pay for your advice or get a special-rate loan from a bank. And being without a job tends to rule that out too.
So the only way to have supposed assitance in this process is to sign on until you begin to work more than a fixed number of hours per week and can class your self-employment as your 'job'.

I don't know how much money you think you can make in this country on benefits but it's fuck-all for a single man aged 31.

Also, I'm not entirely sure you understand the way our system works either. It's constantly assessed. Those assessments are made quickly and are often system-based which, rather than aiding people who want to do nothing and claim benefits, actually end up making the whole process very difficult to deal with indeed.

But this is beside the point. This green paper would not affect me because of the type of JSA I claim. It's affect on me is not my reason to be against it.

I think a lot of you are missing the point of the Tories announcing these plans. It's pretty much twofold.

Firstly, it's to score brownie points with people who see the 'lower classes' (as you charmingly and simply call them Rick) as being spongers. The fact of it is there is already a set of rules in place that effectively stop people signing on for long periods of time. They've been mentioned already but after 6 months of non-work then things change dramatically for the claimant and it really only is those with no experience of the benefit process who assume that you can just sign your name and not have to work again. I suspect the lack of desire to clear this confusion up on the part of the Tories is somewhat beneficial to them.

Which connects to the 2nd reason which is that there is a large and increasing number of claimants from outside of the UK who are now living here following the lowering of borders in the EU.
The staff in Job Centres are already stretched and overworked. A lot of the staff there used to be on the dole themselves funnily enough. It seems every dole officer I meet has total contempt for the system they work in. The job is also frequently dangerous and stressful.
The problem now is that there are an increasing number of non-English speaking claimants and getting them off the dole is harder obviously because a lot of the policing of the legitimacy of claims is based on one-to-one questioning and almost interrogation-style communication between the officer and the claimant.
If the claimant can legitimately shrug his/her shoulders at every question then this policing becomes harder for people who are already working shitty jobs under a lot of stress.
By putting a ceiling of 2 years on a person's allowable unemployment it means that a lot of cases can just be ended by automation without this need for interview or cross-examination.
And if a lot of those people are from outside the UK then I suspect that's more Brownie points for the Tories as well.
Rick Reuben wrote:We're all sensitive people
With so much love to give, understand me sugar
Since we got to be... Lets say, I love you

Tory Green Paper: " Work For Welfare"

134
Rick Reuben wrote:
honeyisfunny wrote:I may well have a brain full of Fruit Loops Rick but you're an arrogant American and I can't think of anything worse than that.
Why do you think people like yourself should be subsidized by the taxpayers to have nights out at pubs and play in bands, and not have to return anything back in labor? Or subsidized to watch football all day? Or sell drugs? Or play video games?

Lazy self-inflated thief.


I don't do those things on tax payers money. I work and I work a lot. Anyone who knows me can vouch for that. The very people who give me the benefits we're talking about can vouch for that as well.
Last time I was actually elligible for dole payments I received £17 a week. I don't know what you can do on £17 a week but here it doesn't pay for many nights out. It doesn't even pay the TV licence.

I know about you Rick, you own property. You're as big a part of this as anyone. And now on top of all of this you're a hysterical Tory which is some fucking mean feat seeings you're not even in this bloody country.
Rick Reuben wrote:We're all sensitive people
With so much love to give, understand me sugar
Since we got to be... Lets say, I love you

Tory Green Paper: " Work For Welfare"

136
big_dave wrote:Doesn't Honnyisfunny do art for bands or something? Isn't that work? Isn't that more work than anything Rick or Skronk have been party to in the past ten months?

This "job = income" bullshit can go away, go away forever.


My job is as an illustrator, it's not just for music-related stuff though because of the people I know it tends to be in that area predominantly.

I also work very hard as part of an arts and music collective in Nottingham that's not-for-profit. As do gjhardwick and si-maro.
Rick Reuben wrote:We're all sensitive people
With so much love to give, understand me sugar
Since we got to be... Lets say, I love you

Tory Green Paper: " Work For Welfare"

137
Rick Reuben wrote: Why do the welfare recipients deserve free money, but the workers don't deserve interest-free loans? After all, it's money that was created using them for collateral.

All you have to do is kick those slimy Rothschilds and their Bank of England off their perch, from where they have gouged Britain for trillions over centuries.


It's what I said when I said:

honeyisfunny wrote:I've got worries about being encouraged to be in debt all the time as though it is normal.


So Rick: we'll meet Saturday and sort these Rothschilds out (I guess you have a plan right?) and then it's off to the pub? Tally-ho!

Cue page after page of increasingly frothy babbling about how Rick's plan is to just post on this message board.
Rick Reuben wrote:We're all sensitive people
With so much love to give, understand me sugar
Since we got to be... Lets say, I love you

Tory Green Paper: " Work For Welfare"

138
Rick Reuben wrote:
big_dave wrote:Oh yes, and whenever I called them up to ask for an application form I had to go through an extruciating 'mini-interview' over the phone where they asked about income and why I wasn't in work.



Wow... asking for free money over the phone from your sofa.... extruciating (sic)!


I think he's making the point that the Tory Green Paper is just a PR exercise as there are already plenty of measures in place in the system to ensure you fulfill your 'contract' signed when claiming.
Rick Reuben wrote:We're all sensitive people
With so much love to give, understand me sugar
Since we got to be... Lets say, I love you

Tory Green Paper: " Work For Welfare"

139
honeyisfunny wrote:
big_dave wrote:Doesn't Honnyisfunny do art for bands or something? Isn't that work? Isn't that more work than anything Rick or Skronk have been party to in the past ten months?

This "job = income" bullshit can go away, go away forever.


My job is as an illustrator, it's not just for music-related stuff though because of the people I know it tends to be in that area predominantly.

I also work very hard as part of an arts and music collective in Nottingham that's not-for-profit. As do gjhardwick and si-maro.


But you don't profit personally from any of this, that means it isn't really hard work and it doesn't give anything back to the society you're leaching off! Either that or it is slavery, apparently.

Giving layabouts money to make culture? You couldn't make it up. What next, NHS treatment for Post Traumatic Stress?
http://www.rainhamsheds.co.uk/

Tory Green Paper: " Work For Welfare"

140
Rick Reuben wrote:
honeyisfunny wrote:I think he's making the point that the Tory Green Paper is just a PR exercise as there are already plenty of measures in place in the system to ensure you fulfill your 'contract' signed when claiming.
No, dopey. Dave was not forced to do work for welfare. This is a change in policy. Are you that clueless that you don't even know this thread is about workfare? We're on page ten.


It's a proposed change in policy from someone who isn't even in power. What the fuck are you on about?
Rick Reuben wrote:We're all sensitive people
With so much love to give, understand me sugar
Since we got to be... Lets say, I love you

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