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There have been numerous explanations for occurrences such as Oumuamua and Tabby's Star, but I don't think a general consensus has been reached for either of them which isn't to say let's land on the most outlandish but to keep exploring not matter how far the journey might take you.

DaveA wrote: Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:13 pm Some “believers” might still want to home in on those clips and the surrounding testimony as “smoking guns.” Alternately, some naysayers might think it represents the fullest extent of potential evidence of aliens that ever has, or ever will, come to light; since it's likely bunk, then the entire vast field of ufology collapses into folderol, and the subject is now over and done with. The end.

My point is that when stupid videos of airplanes are still being circulated as evidence of aliens, anyone including that kind of evidence in their claims isn't looking for the truth and shouldn't be taken seriously. This seems to be entirely of a piece with the rest of the vast field of UFOlogy and their methodology. NASA says optical illusions are common in the upper atmosphere. A serious UFOlogist - that is, somebody who wasn't assuming evidence of aliens - would start by investigating all the ways that people can be fooled. They should be doing their own debunking. It's because they don't that I call them cranks.

It's a shame we weren't able to send anything to intercept Oumuamua, not because I think it was an alien spaceship, but a big hunk of crap from deep space would still have been wonderful to analyse. But there was just no way to catch it. Maybe next time. One thing everyone can agree about is that Oumuamua is definitely real and did come from deep space.

If we ever do find evidence of aliens, the fringe UFO types will be among the first to say it, not because they have any special insight but because that's what they always say.

What if Oumuamua is a piece of space detritus from a long-extinct civilization?

I'm on the Fermi paradox bandwagon. It's not just the enormity of space, as a static concept, but also the concept of time and spacetime holistically. Trillions of stars in each of billions of galaxies across gazillions of miles is one thing, but a rapidly expanding universe that exceeds 'c' and has been doing so for <13.5 billion Earth years is another layer of complexity.

It's a small window between a semi-intelligent organism that has just figured out how to manipulate electromagnetism, and then the weak and strong forces, and presumably gravitation before achieving oblivion through either self-destruction or transcending corporeal existence - which to organisms like us, might not look too different at a distance. That window may only look like at best a 10,000 Earth-year window to at worst a 500 Earth-year window. How can two civilizations expect to cross paths with such an unlikely overlap in spacetime?

Given the vastness out there, any advanced civilization would need a viral self-replicating method of spreading awareness to the far reaches of the cosmos - even if in possession of superluminal travel. To detect a civilization such as ours in time to make contact before potential self-destruction would mean having a probe within 50-100 light years of any viable civilization that emerges from electromagnetic silence, and to be able to do that across just one galaxy, let alone multiple millions separated by equally immense spacetime.

Only an advanced civilization with immense longevity might possess such capabilities, assuming it wouldn't transcend the physical 4 degree of freedom we experience, and care enough to interact with the likes of us - akin to our desire to interact with bacteria. More likely, it would be the technological offspring of such a civilization that might carry on this mission. AI automatons that gather data, and maybe little else. Perhaps quasi-biological automatons that we may mistake for sentient corporeal entities.

I'm more prepared for the disappointment of witnessing the detritus of an advanced civilization, rather than intelligent interaction.

It's a shame, as someone without religion and a disdain for the stupidity of most humans - including the rich and powerful, would love to see an advanced civilization which has transcended any material concerns arrive to offer us the know-how to allow us to kick-start from our current challenges to the next state of civilization and awareness. I can't help but wonder if this feeling is unique to our time. Were there once Aztecs that were sick of the hierarchy and sacrifices and goofy origin stories and cultural monotony and wished for contact with a foreign people that was a world away? Only to regret, or perhaps more importantly, embrace and become collaborators?

We already have the know-how to improve civilization. We’re just too much of a global asshole to do it.

I do like the idea that UFOs could be self-replicating drones from a long-dead civilization. A bit like the sperm whale and pot of petunias innit.

From the Hitchhiker's Guide? How so?

I'm actually involved in making a video game about self-replicating quasi-biological automatons from a long-dead civilization spreading throughout the galaxy, whose various factions are permanently at war with one another for reasons they can no longer explain. That's the basic premise.

Anthony Flack wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:51 am From the Hitchhiker's Guide? How so?

Just in the sense that they’re technology that remains after the civilization they came from is long gone, trying to fulfill a directive that no longer has meaning.

I’ve been listening to this morning’s NASA press conference. Lots of emphasis on de-stigmatizing UAP and approaching it scientifically, and not necessarily assuming that recent sightings are extraterrestrial.

https://apnews.com/article/nasa-ufos-in ... 518368ce9a

These are top military people. 100% reliable witnesses. If high-level Pentagon commanders take the threat of demons in the upper atmosphere seriously, so should we.

Anthony Flack wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:08 pm These are top military people. 100% reliable witnesses. If high-level Pentagon commanders take the threat of demons in the upper atmosphere seriously, so should we.