matthew wrote:Well maybe a lot of world is socially, economically and financially screwed-up and backwards because of the powers that be there. That ever occur to you? Did it occur to you that maybe here in the US we actually do things RIGHT, and a lot of the world is actually messed up? I guess that never occurred to you........you think that a country like Sudan is messed up in such respects "just because", or worse yet because of U.S. FOREIGN POLICY? No. It's because that nation is under the stranglehold of a bunch of backward Islamicist savages and an inept vestige of government.

No, it's because Africa was divided up like a jigsaw for retards by imperial, developed nations. The native Africans were used to living as tribal, nomadic people. Then, they had borders imposed on them that they couldn't cross. This made a lot of them angry, because they couldn't live like they used to. SO, rival tribes started fighting against each other.

Countries like Sudan, Ethiopia, Zimbabwe etc were doing just fine before Imperial nations imposed their will and ways on them (which is not to say that Robert Mugabe isn't a cunt, because he is a cunt).

Apologies to everyone (except Matthew) for my enormously simplified diagnosis of the problems facing almost every African nation.

I made simplified it so that you could maybe understand them, Matthew.

steve wrote:Any idea whether the carry laws have changed since 1980? If they are tougher, then these data support my position.

But I'm prepared to be wrong.

As far as I can tell, there has been only one restriction on firearm possession that has been introduced since 1980. It is now illegal to bring a concealed weapon into a school.

Montana liberalized its concealed carry laws in 1991. Prior to 1991, Montana had a "may issue" policy, in which applicants for a concealed carry permit were considered on a case by case basis by local authorities. After 1991, Montana moved to a "shall issue" policy, in which any eligible handgun purchaser had to be awarded a concealed carry permit upon application.

EDIT: In 1999, Montana prohibited the possession of firearms on a state game preserve. In 1991, Montana prohibited the possession of firearms on a train without expressed written consent from the railroad manager. The Brady Act required NICS approval for all firearms purchases made from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License in all states. Non-FFL sales do not require background checks in Montana.

1. Rush Limbaugh is beyond crap. He is a tidal wave of bloody diarrhea. This is self-evident. If you find him entertaining, you're not listening very closely. He is the embodiment of smallness, cruelty and remorseless lying. The only interesting thing about him will be the inevitably fucked-up circumstances of his death, given his penchant for oxycontin, viagra and dominican hookers.

2. There was a big to-do about a conceal-and-carry law here in Minnesota. I thought it would lead to a bunch of vigilante shootings. It didn't. Those of us on the left need to accept that gun control is a flawed concept.

3. Here are some thoughts on work and wages from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2428
Everyone should be able to draw from work the means of providing for his life and that of his family, and of serving the human community.

2432
Those responsible for business enterprises are responsible to society for the economic and ecological effects of their operations.

2434
A just wage is the legitimate fruit of work. To refuse or withhold it can be a grave injustice. In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. "Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good." Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages.

matthew wrote:

Seaside Lounge wrote:...people with no education or career training...

Uh...then get some education and training, perhaps? Start at the bottom and work your way up.....that sort of thing?

Something tells me you didn't start at the bottom and as such, you have no real idea what you are talking about.

If everybody were trained and educated for skilled labor, who would bag your groceries? Who would pick up your garbage? Who would deliver your food? This system you are so crazy about requires lots and lots of menial labor, and it's the least we can do as privileged people to assure that the people doing this work make a good, living wage, that allows them to pursue a better life for themselves, or at least for their children. Some will take more advantage of this than others, but don't they at least have a right to the opportunity?

We can stop having this discussion at any time you like. It will go on as long as you keep spouting this idiocy.

matthew wrote:Because unlike people such as you, we believe that human life has an END, that is to say an ultimate purpose and destiny.

Actually, you only think that Christian human life has an ultimate purpose. You're in the 'ticket to heaven' business, and because you inflate your sense of self-worth with supernatural visions about where you're going, you are very judgemental about who earns society's protections during their time on Earth. Thinking such thoughts provides Christians with an easy excuse for why they gladly support economies that exploit and wars that kill; they say, "Don't focus on the earthly miseries of the unfortunate- God will deliver an ultimate purpose to all the faithful." You place conditions on fair treatment: "Read and follow my Holy Book". That makes you unholy. People who don't believe in an afterlife usually do more ( much more ) good works during their time on Earth than those who do, because they treat other people as if the lives they ( the givers ) have may be all they've got.

matthew wrote:

steve wrote:

matthew wrote:Glad I can entertain you, Steve!

What have you to say to the contrary though?

That your position of privilege has convinced you that everyone is as easily employed as you and other middle-class educated white people with families and other support networks. You don't recognize that you are actually in a tiny minority, and you have it better than, oh, 99 percent of the rest of the world.

Well maybe a lot of world is socially, economically and financially screwed-up and backwards because of the powers that be there. That ever occur to you? Did it occur to you that maybe here in the US we actually do things RIGHT, and a lot of the world is actually messed up? I guess that never occurred to you........you think that a country like Sudan is messed up in such respects "just because", or worse yet because of U.S. FOREIGN POLICY? No. It's because that nation is under the stranglehold of a bunch of backward Islamicist savages and an inept vestige of government.

I seriously believed that idiots like you wouldn't be able to use a computer. You are the living proof that this country is going down the shitter.

When you say: "...we do things RIGHT,.."

Do you mean?: " we know how to become a super power by taking other people's land, use slavery (labor cost free) to build a rich economy, dominate the the rest of the emisphere through intimiadation tactics, paranoic anti-communist dictatorship placement program, etc..."


You and Rush are useless human waste.

jcamanei wrote:
Do you mean?: " we know how to become a super power

That's as far as matthew will need to read. Christians judge the end, and if they like it, need not examine the means- if you demand that they do, they'll just lie to you for as long as it takes for you to stop asking. That's the power granted to them when they signed on for the God Squad.

steve wrote:Wait, we are not wrong. We are almost never wrong. Fuck you for saying we "mostly fucking wrong." Fuck you for ignoring the obvious.

And the smoking bans. And the foie gras bans. And the insistence on following the right wing into my house and telling me what sort of entertainment I should find entertaining. And I think maybe someone might have mentioned guns already?

Both the "liberal" and "conservative" archetypes have ideological flaws and they (and their relative importance in the grand scheme of things) should be pretty obvious. The main thing I find depressing about "debates" like this is that the internet is pretty much only appropriate for stereotypical, reductionist arguments and not so much for actually expressing subtle differences in personal morals, ethics or experience (which can be exhibited in somewhat less subtle differences in ideology). I think most folks on this board would be more persuasive (or at least better able to defend their positions) in person. And they'd also be a lot easier to punch.

Dan

danmohr wrote:

steve wrote:Wait, we are not wrong. We are almost never wrong. Fuck you for saying we "mostly fucking wrong." Fuck you for ignoring the obvious.

The pertinent part of Steve's post that you're quoting was the first paragraph.

Read that paragraph again, and see if you find something to quibble about there.

m.koren wrote:

alpha80 wrote:TBH, listening to Rush is really about maintaining a comprehensive understanding of the majority of social/mental problems

Great , I always wondered what Geddy was hollering on about.

I've been told that it has something to do with Oaks ignoring the Maples' pleas for more sunlight.

Maples...weak

-A