Well, admittedly, when I wrote what I wrote, I didn't have you in mind, RSMurphy; it certainly was not intended as any kind of insinuation or accusation. And I apologize if I came off as some kind of sanctimonious or judgemental jackass. I was just considering gnangle's perspective, and I felt like his frustration stemmed from a feeling that an anti-homophobia thread was circling around toward homophobic. I don't personally feel like the thread developed that way, but I wondered if maybe that was gnangle's concern? I don't know. Please forgive the inarticulacy of my earlier post, (and this one!) The brain part of me poops words sometimes. Your response, RSMurphy, on the other hand, was very well put.

I'm sorry gnangle got so angry, but I can see his point. I feel like it can be awfully easy, when lampooning someone's bad behavior, to use a brush that can seem too broad. When satirizing, it never hurts to be reminded to be mindful. As somebody who derives a lot of humor from very sketchy territory, it's dificult but important when somebody calls on me to defend my jokes. I feel like it keeps me fairly honest, and disciplines me to keep my heart in the right place, I suppose. I get frustrated and angry when these politicians who are gay do things to hurt the gay community, but I admit I have almost no understanding of what they're going through; therefore, I will continue to bust their chops over their shitty behavior, but there's gotta be some sympathy in it. Gnangle, I didn't like the feeling that you were hollering at me, but it did make me think about what's important, and for that, I thank you. And I'm sorry you're pissed off. Of course, my humor will always be bound to come back and punch me in the face, I'm just a jackass that way!

I know a guy with a lucky blue suit if it saves time.

mufkin taskellsz wrote: Also, didn't mean to imply that those deserve any kind of free pass.Oh, of course! Like I mentioned, at first even I was like, am I really being that much of an unsympathetic dick? Then I thought: meh.

mufkin taskellsz wrote:Well, admittedly, when I wrote what I wrote, I didn't have you in mind, RSMurphy; it certainly was not intended as any kind of insinuation or accusation. And I apologize if I came off as some kind of sanctimonious or judgemental jackass. I was just considering gnangle's perspective, and I felt like his frustration stemmed from a feeling that an anti-homophobia thread was circling around toward homophobic. I don't personally feel like the thread developed that way, but I wondered if maybe that was gnangle's concern? I don't know. Please forgive the inarticulacy of my earlier post, (and this one!) The brain part of me poops words sometimes. Your response, RSMurphy, on the other hand, was very well put.Honestly, man, you have no reason to be apologetic. I, too, took a second look at what the majority of us were doing in this thread because of gnagle's original objection. I wish it were as easy as he thinks. You weren't inarticulate, and I didn't feel called-out. What I don't understand is how gnagle's original objection, which does have merit, turned into the majority of posters in this thread being homophobic. I hate that this keeps being pointed out at this point, but I believe it's pertinent to the thread: as a gay man, not for one moment did I feel this thread was anything but a sincere attempt to highlight the hypocrisy of closeted politicians and religious leaders, and I don't wish to speak for the other gay guys in this community, but I'm sure they feel the same way. It's an interesting and altruistic concept to show these closet freaks a modicum of mercy, but I, we, just cannot. Maybe if one of these turds comes out of their own volition instead of being dragged kicking and screaming, as well as apologizing for all of the hurt and pain they've contributed to, sure. Until then...I appreciate your candor but it ain't necessary! Thanks!

geiginni wrote:I don't mean to get off topic at all, but it's just so heartbreaking to hear the stories of these poor middle and high-school kids in small towns, and then read about how supportive their families tried to be (which often, of course, they're not). And, I can't help thinking, "If you were so supporting and loving, why the fuck did you stay in this small minded, small town shithole with all this going on?!!!". In the cases of these kids and the relentless bullying and lack of a support base in the community, the first thing I would've done as a parent is to relocate my family and gay kid to a supportive community. That doesn't mean you have to move to Greenwich Village or San Francisco these days, for shitsakes. Just a fucking move to a good liberal college town like Davis, Boulder, Ann Arbor, Madison, Rochester... your love of your child should always warrant such a sacrifice.I don't know, man. From your thinking one can next assume that the parents are tangentially complicit in the suicides of their children. I'm not knowledgeable enough about small town economics, and I certainly don't have any insight into the finances of these unfortunate families, but I'm sure if it were feasible to just pick-up and move to someplace more liberal they would do it. It sounds horribly cheesy, but sometimes love just isn't enough. Also, kids are just assholes, period. Grade school is rough no matter if it's in bumfuck Iowa or Chicago, IL. Instead of looking to the parents to uproot their personal lives, we should be asking where are the school administrators and the local politicians' involvement in these cases.

mufkin taskellsz wrote:I'm sorry gnangle got so angry, but I can see his point. I feel like it can be awfully easy, when lampooning someone's bad behavior, to use a brush that can seem too broad. When satirizing, it never hurts to be reminded to be mindful. Agreed. So in our efforts to be mindful, let's not forget these people:Tyler Clementi: eighteen-years-old at the time of his suicideSeth Walsh: thirteen-years-old at the time of his suicideJamey Rodemeyer: fourteen-years-old at the time of his suicideBilly Lucas: fifteen-years-old at the time of his suicideAsher Brown - thirteen-years-old at the time of his suicideJames Borges: eighteen-years-old at the time of his suicideColle Carpenter: transman assaulted on Cal State Long Beach campus--the word "IT" was carved into his chestBrandon White: Atlanta man beaten by a gang who recorded the assault and uploaded it to a hip-hop websiteChicagoan Daniel Hauff, who after coming to the defense of another gay man who was being attacked, had to scream "I'M HIV POSITIVE" in order for the attackers to cease with their violent assaultStephen Hill --openly gay soldier who is in the middle of serving in Iraq who was audibly booed by several audience members in a GOP debate, while the GOP presedential hopefuls remained quietThere is also the case of a trans woman in Pennsylvania who was found dead with a pillowcase wrapped around her head. This isn't to mention the countless of other suicides and assaults that have gone undocumented. When I begin to think that gnagle might have a point, I am reminded of the hateful rhetoric and discriminatory legislation attempted by the various "victims" in this thread that directly contributed to the tragic stories of the real victims posted above. This isn't like poiniting gotcha! at Kevin Spacey or Tom Cruise. I have no sympathy for these monsters who come oozing out of the closet. None.

sleepkid wrote:Wow.What a complete and total meltdown by gnangle, who is really usually quite reasonable. Stating the obvious, Gnangle seems to have completely missed that this thread is against homophobia and is intent on revealing the hypocrisy that some closeted homosexuals have perpetrated against their own kind. Also seems to have missed that RSMurphy is Randall who really is black and gay (no joke) and an excellent drummer. My question is, how has all of this been missed? What set this off? Was gnangle high? Did someone else seize the account? The spelling seems off. Anyway. Wow. Just wow.I ve had some back and forth with this gnangle character before. I ve never known him (or her, I dunno) to be œreasonable on these forums. For one, he and some other poster, I can t remember who, were doing some weird tag team thing on the œWhy Are People Such Pussies? thread. I ended up saying, indirectly, that yeah, some of have dark and off-color senses of humor. Also, that, for the most part, a lot of us are fairly liberal, left-leaning people who are secure in who we are and where we stand on the issues. So, yeah, we can indulge in sarcasm, irony and black humor.Probably went right past dudes. Gnangle is kind of like the left s own bizarre-world krakabash, except worse, because he (or she, I dunno) throws online tantrums. However, my suspicion is that gnangle may be well-meaning but kinda slow. Either way, not real secure in his identity, not if he s gonna call us idiots and motherfuckers because we are.edit: I meant secure in our identities, not idiots and motherfuckers. Though we're that, too.

sleepkid wrote:Wow.What a complete and total meltdown by gnangle, who is really usually quite reasonable. Stating the obvious, Gnangle seems to have completely missed that this thread is against homophobia and is intent on revealing the hypocrisy that some closeted homosexuals have perpetrated against their own kind. Also seems to have missed that RSMurphy is Randall who really is black and gay (no joke) and an excellent drummer. My question is, how has all of this been missed? What set this off? Was gnangle high? Did someone else seize the account? The spelling seems off. Anyway. Wow. Just wow.I ve had some back and forth with this gnangle character before. I ve never known him (or her, I dunno) to be œreasonable on these forums. For one, he and some other poster, I can t remember who, were doing some weird tag team thing on the œWhy Are People Such Pussies? thread. I ended up saying, indirectly, that yeah, some of have dark and off-color senses of humor. Also, that, for the most part, a lot of us are fairly liberal, left-leaning people who are secure in who we are and where we stand on the issues. So, yeah, we can indulge in sarcasm, irony and black humor.Probably went right past dudes. Gnangle is kind of like the left s own bizarre-world krakabash, except worse, because he (or she, I dunno) throws online tantrums. However, my suspicion is that gnangle may be well-meaning but kinda slow. Either way, not real secure in his identity, not if he s gonna call us idiots and motherfuckers because we are.edit: I meant secure in our identities, not idiots and motherfuckers. Though we're that, too.

Hall of Fame post, Randall. Salut.